Wind turbines

[M61A1]

I have to agree that gas works just fine...but you've still got to get past the usual suspects who want to rule out anything but solar or wind.

 

The plural of anecdote is not evidence - but there are many in the community who believe it is.

I don't have any trouble with the belief that wind turbines don't make power when the wind doesn't blow....very easy to prove that one.

 

 

[M61A1]

CorrectSo why aren't they being invested in like wind and solar?

 

Id guess not eligible for Govt handouts and secured returns

They seem to have banned fracking, despite years of evidence that when done properly it causes no detrimental effects. Although I did read that NT was looking to lift the ban.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Nev, you are right again. The prediction is that  methane from the arctic  will tip the climate into uninhabitable. 

 

The advice McPherson gives is to enjoy the little time you have left and be nice to people.

 

Gosh if he is right then all this stuff about wind and coal is futile.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The classic coal income 'understanding' comes from former greens leader Bob Brown. In an ABC TV interview Brown said he wanted all coal mines closed. The interviewer asked brown how would we make up for the loss of income to Australia after all the coal mines were closed down. Brown suggested a 'super profits' tax on the coal miners............................... needless to say, brown were soon 'removed' from his position...

Are you sure about this, FB? Is that what he actually said?

 

His party's policy was actually to gradually phase out the coal industry. That's no more radical than many coalition policies, which had the effect of rapidly closing down several industries, including the one I grew up in.

 

Bob Brown earned grudging respect from coal miners in Central Qld when he showed more guts than most politicians, and actually spoke to the people who would lose most from his policies. 

 

I'd love to debate the rest of your claims FB, but not on the RecFlying site. 

 

This thread is also found on the Off topic site (WUA).

 

.

[Flying Binghi]

gas powered plants are way cheaper to build and operate, if china wants to pollute their agricultural soils with the ash from our coal they are welcome to it. Most of the chinese power plants are going bust now that China is moving away from increasing steel production. I read in one of the financial papers that 40% of them are running at a loss and are slated to close in the next decade.

Heh, China will tell you what you want to believe. I see a Chinese owned company, Yancool, has bought a RIO owned coal mine in Oz. Obviously China has plans...

 

.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

the news is always

 

 

 

[fly_tornado]

They seem to have banned fracking, despite years of evidence that when done properly it causes no detrimental effects. Although I did read that NT was looking to lift the ban.

safety record for the oil and gas industry is why insurance companies are moving away from it. nothing is ever as safe as the marketing and PR department says it is

 

 

 

[spacesailor]

No gas for Australia.

 

Contracted to overseas at a lose on every shipload sent, Who will rock that boat. Political suicide for any pollie !

 

spacesailor

 

 

[coljones]

The classic coal income 'understanding' comes from former greens leader Bob Brown. In an ABC TV interview Brown said he wanted all coal mines closed. The interviewer asked brown how would we make up for the loss of income to Australia after all the coal mines were closed down. Brown suggested a 'super profits' tax on the coal miners............................... needless to say, brown were soon 'removed' from his position.

Re foreign ownership - Whatever the figure, like a lot of minerals and farm produce, most coal is exported anyway. As long as Oz gets its cut along the way who cares. We carn't value add much to our farm and mineral exports because, amongst other things, Australia's power costs have in a few short years gone from the cheapest in the world to nearly the highest in the world. And why is that...

 

...So, getting back to the thread subject and the justification of even building unreliable wind turbines that are a hazard to aviation:

 

A/ Wind turbines still need a back-up power source for when the wind don't blow. At this time the back-up is either coal power, or diesel or gas power. i.e., the back-up is carbon power. The stupidity of having two different hugely expensive power sources when only one is needed is beyond belief.

 

B/ The wind tower operators are guaranteed to be paid for the power they produce when the wind blows though suffer no financial responsibility for when they carn't supply power. Imagine if yer could get a paying job like that - Turn up for work when yer feel like it, feck around for half an hour, maybe don't work for a while or maybe just come in once a week and work for a day. And all your work time you get paid ten times or more the market rate for your 'variable' efforts. In the meantime the employer needs to keep a full time paid employee on stand by to work when Mr Wind Power couldn't be bothered...

 

C/ Turbulence and navigation hazard for aircraft.

 

Nuff fer now...

 

.

The back up for wind is the windfarm on the other side of the hill (brought to you by the power of networking and smart engineering).

The farmer may get paid rent for the land where the tower is but the wind farm operator only gets paid when power is being generated and placed on the grid.

 

Turbulence? Bugger all.

 

Navigation Hazzard - what you can see can alert you to where you are.  My complaint about the grid is that they can be hard to see.  I would like the power people to paint the tops Orange so I have an alternate to roads and rail for navigation

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Metallurgical coal is different from steaming coal. Met coal is used for steel production. Steaming coal for power. Two different beasts altogether.

 

 

[kgwilson]

They seem to have banned fracking, despite years of evidence that when done properly it causes no detrimental effects. Although I did read that NT was looking to lift the ban.

The real problem is that too many fracking projects have failed and ground water has become contaminated. The fracking companies keep telling us everything will be OK but unfortunately along comes another leak or problem. Their PR gets blown to bits with locals but with plenty of money for pollies support they still keep going.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I have not heard of any fracking problems in Australia. References?

 

 

[kgwilson]

Most of the problems have occurred in the US where hydraulic fracturing has occurred close to human communities. These are not common here as the fracking occurs in sparsely populated areas. I don't have the details but there were several instances in QLD as far back as 2010 where farm water supplies had become contaminated leaving the water unfit to drink. Also the US EPA has finally admitted that Fracking can contaminate drinking water at virtually every stage in the process.

 

 

[Flying Binghi]

The back up for wind is the windfarm on the other side of the hill (brought to you by the power of networking and smart engineering).The farmer may get paid rent for the land where the tower is but the wind farm operator only gets paid when power is being generated and placed on the grid.

 

Turbulence? Bugger all.

 

Navigation Hazzard - what you can see can alert you to where you are.  My complaint about the grid is that they can be hard to see.  I would like the power people to paint the tops Orange so I have an alternate to roads and rail for navigation

Yeah, though the wind often stops blowing every where. And what the wind power company's get paid can vary greatly. Reference - https://stopthesethings.com/experts/

 

Re Turbulence - Many wind towers have been destroyed from the turbulence created from upstream wind towers. There are also pilot reports of Turbulence. So how do you come to the conclusion that there is "bugger all" turbulence ?

 

.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

More crackpot sources? Do you know who owns stop these things

 

 

[Flying Binghi]

More crackpot sources? Do you know who owns stop these things

Oh! So yer think AEMO is a crackpot source ? https://www.aemo.com.au/Electricity/National-Electricity-Market-NEM/Data-dashboard

 

Or Anero a crackpot source?  http://anero.id/energy/wind-energy

 

Those are the sources for the STT article.

 

...and look at Anero. Most wind generators in Oz ain't doing anything at the moment... 

 

.

 

 

[jetjr]

The real problem is that too many fracking projects have failed and ground water has become contaminated. The fracking companies keep telling us everything will be OK but unfortunately along comes another leak or problem. Their PR gets blown to bits with locals but with plenty of money for pollies support they still keep going.

Like to see some evidence of contaminated groundwater in australia. Failed projects, Leaks or problems.

 

Few care what gas companies say and requirements based on evidence are accepted.

 

PR gets snowed by emotional bs backed by other interested parties

 

Plenty of people in regional centres support csg. Especially those with wells on their land.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I would like proof that wind turbine syndrome exists, you keep telling me that its real but I think its made up to fool gullible people.

 

I feel like you are anti-common sense to avoid admitting you were wrong. 

 

Lock the gate alliance can take you to sites and you can met farmers who have they farms polluted by gas and oil companies.

 

But why would you want to listen to them?

 

 

[Flying Binghi]

I'm just having a look-see at the wind power output around Oz... http://anero.id/energy/wind-energy

 

Though coal and gas are going gang busters...https://reneweconomy.com.au/nem-watch/

 

Seems there ain't much more then nothing from wind...

 

.

 

 

[M61A1]

More crackpot sources? Do you know who owns stop these things

 

 

Lock the gate alliance

Doesn't get much more crackpot than that....

 

 

[fly_tornado]

weren't you drinking Oakey's bore water to prove it safe?

 

 

[Flying Binghi]

Update - Just looking at Anero and see wind energy has gone dead around Oz. Lucky we still got a couple of coal stations as they are supplying most of Oz power at this time.

 

.

 

 

[facthunter]

Surprised some here are not aware of Farmer's attitudes to fracking and mining in many parts of Australia. No I'm not providing a link. If you were serious about the truth you would have no trouble finding them yourselves.  The NP certainly aren't representing THEIR interests.

 

  Binghi. You will see many wind generators not turning on days where they could. When there's no demand they are not used. I guess Coal gets priority .Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Once your groundwater is polluted the land is basically worthless, farmers are starting to realise this, the land around Chinchilla is an example.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-09/court-linc-energy-guilty-serious-environmental-harm-ucg-plant/9632964

 

 

[M61A1]

Ha ha, the land around Chinchilla has never been good land for agriculture A farmer seeking compensation might tell a magistrate otherwise though. A similar story with the Oakey groundwater. Lawyers play it up because there's a dollar in it. Farmers jump on the bandwagon because the lawyer told them there's a dollar in it. I've seen the application forms....the claimant is number six down the list to get any funds. Usually the European standards are considered quite high, and the quantities are less than the euro standard, so the lawyers pushed for the Californian standard which is ten times lower, just so the lawyers could say levels exceeded the limit.

 

Most people have some levels of the chemicals concerned, as they are used in carpets, camping gear, and non-stick cookware. I grew up around the place (drinking bore water a lot), and have worked in the area for many years, and according to the blood tests, I have quite low levels. 

 

I'd love to see tests done for the chemicals the farmers spray everywhere, and watch them start backpedalling.