Wind turbines

[Old Koreelah]

The funny thing is all that coal, is it's full of heavy metals, which once airborne, ends up in the food chain...

On our roads, trucks are required to cover their loads. Meanwhile, trains carrying thousands of tonnes of coal pass thru our towns and suburbs daily- uncovered.

[fly_tornado]

thank the railway unions for that

 

 

[Marty_d]

By ultrasonic you mean faster than sound, or do you mean above human hearing range/ frequency?.. Sound measuring equipment (and dogs) can detect that. Nev

Nev... Nev... he's got his tongue firmly in cheek - chumming the waters for the bite of the dog-whistled sharks (pardon the mixed metaphor)

[Marty_d]

The current "renewables" technology is not up to the task.

CSIRO don't agree with you.

[fly_tornado]

Nev... Nev... he's got his tongue firmly in cheek - chumming the waters for the bite of the dog-whistled sharks (pardon the mixed metaphor)

its weird that "wind turbine syndrome" has only ever been recognised as a phenomenon in Australia

 

 

[Marty_d]

I didn't think it had been recognised anywhere. This sums it up pretty well.. How to catch 'wind turbine syndrome': by hearing about it and then worrying | Simon Chapman

 

 

[M61A1]

When big business recognises that renewables are cheaper and more quickly brought on line than coal nuclear, why are our leaders still flogging the coal horse?

If they were economically sound, no-one would be flogging the coal horse.

 

On our roads, trucks are required to cover their loads. Meanwhile, trains carrying thousands of tonnes of coal pass thru our towns and suburbs daily- uncovered

I am familiar with the whingers about coal dust, a nearby town complains about it a lot, yet when I visit a venue that is closer to the stockpile and loading area than the town, there is no black dust to be seen. Trains don't accelerate, brake and turn like trucks. If there was substance to the claims of dust contamination, there would dust over everything along the tracks, and there ISN'T.

 

CSIRO don't agree with you

Where are their viable power stations? If the technology was viable, we'd all have been doing ages ago.

[coljones]

Until we catch up with current power demands and lower costs and introduce the wind solar tech in staged steps without destroying our base load.At least with a coal power plant the runway lights will work at night and you don't have to burn $80,000 dollars of diesel fuel "a day" to keep some power on in SA with back up generators.Sorry - just don't understand the way Australia works any more. Sorry for the drift.

What the politicians don't or won't understand is that the wind is always blowing somewhere and that what is required to have power everywhere is to have a power network to move power around as required. The Liberals in SA sold off the power stations and it was Alinta that closed down the coal power station at Port Augusta. The greatest problem with power is that those making the greatest noise have no clothes.

[coljones]

Maybe, but they still have nuclear and fossil fuel plants when when it's dark and still.

No, they buy renewable power in from adjacent and not so adjacent countries and regions where the wind is blowing. The Europeans know all about power networks and their efficient use.

[tillmanr]

And the French sell their nuclear generated power to the adjacent countries who will not build them. Hypocritical to the extreme. Only politicians could be happy with that.

 

 

[KRviator]

thank the railway unions for that

Excuse me? Us drivers would love them to be covered! So would ARTC, to stop coal spillage contaminating the ballast and points motors. If you think coal dust is bad, don't ever look at a Pilbara iron ore train doing track speed!

[Old Koreelah]

I started this thread on the Rec Flying site because of the topic's relevance to passing aircraft, but it's drifted into the realm of politics and the environment.

 

Please swap over to this thread on the What's Up Australia site.

 

 

[facthunter]

The French have had nuclear power at a high level for a long time now. They are without doubt the most successful people to have operated it.

 

When you invest in power it's for a long period, like about 50 years and takes time and a lot of capital to build.. NO private company will build any new COAL fuelled power station in Australia. SO WHY would the government know more about it that the Capitalists who operate things most efficiently?. (Let the Market prevail is the answer to everything according to the neocon right wingers). that is the question for the government who wants to direct business to answer. Using taxpayers money for political ideology is not going to work on this one. What signal does that give to investors?

 

New COAL power stations are NOT flexible or cheap The figures and facts are out there. Let them prove a case economically and also meet commitments to reduce carbon pollution as per agreements they have signed.. Critical coal only operates efficiently at near full output and takes days to get on line . The Liddell Power station is old and is unreliable. Fails on hot days. It's NO answer. It is part of the unreliability problem and will only get worse as it ages. Don't forget the wholesale price of power is les than 1/3rd of what YOU PAY . If you reduce the dependence on, and cost of the grid you will reduce costs to user significantly too. Currently the foreign owned grid is not being cared for.. It's just milked for profit. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

I find it extremely amusing that the hard right of the LNP, ie Abbott, Christensen, Joyce etc, whose ethos has always been that the market knows best, now want to spend billions of tax-payers money building new coal-fired plants that the market won't touch with a barge pole. Commie bastards.

 

If they were economically sound, no-one would be flogging the coal horse.

No one, except the LNP and the coal mining industry, IS flogging the coal horse.

 

Where are their viable power stations? If the technology was viable, we'd all have been doing ages ago.

The policy direction of this government, and its direction while previously in opposition, is at odds with the science. They scuttled the carbon tax, which would have seen earlier investment in renewables (remember "great big new tax" and "hundred-dollar lamb roasts"?). They've done their best to stymie growth in renewable investment - the attempted culling of the Clean Energy Finance Corporation, their peddling of lies about health problems supposedly linked to wind turbines, their "Direct Action" shambles which even the Productivity Commission (not known to be a hotbed of commies, lefties and greenies) said would have no effect, and their irrational and single-minded support for the coal industry.Look at that trenchant opposition to renewables, then look how far renewables have come despite it. If the last 10-12 years had seen bi-partisan support for renewables, imagine how far along this change we'd be now.

 

Coal for electricity generation is the new whale blubber. Yes, a country might, against all logic and good sense, continue an outmoded and unpopular industry at huge cost, like Japan does with their annual "scientific" whaling expeditions. Or they could just leave it in the ground and get on with the change that needs to happen.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

The French have had nuclear power at a high level for a long time now. They are without doubt the most successful people to have operated it.

Not every country has colonial assets in the middle of the Pacific to test their nuclear technology, I wonder how the EU would feel about China and India testing nuclear technology in the Northern Atlantic?

 

 

[facthunter]

The Brits did it here for free and didn't ever clean it up. The Americans did it in the Marshal Islands and other places in the Pacific..It's also a fair while ago. Your point is?? Nev

 

 

[M61A1]

I find it extremely amusing that the hard right of the LNP, ie Abbott, Christensen, Joyce etc, whose ethos has always been that the market knows best, now want to spend billions of tax-payers money building new coal-fired plants that the market won't touch with a barge pole. Commie bastards.No one, except the LNP and the coal mining industry, IS flogging the coal horse.

 

The policy direction of this government, and its direction while previously in opposition, is at odds with the science. They scuttled the carbon tax, which would have seen earlier investment in renewables (remember "great big new tax" and "hundred-dollar lamb roasts"?). They've done their best to stymie growth in renewable investment - the attempted culling of the Clean Energy Finance Corporation, their peddling of lies about health problems supposedly linked to wind turbines, their "Direct Action" shambles which even the Productivity Commission (not known to be a hotbed of commies, lefties and greenies) said would have no effect, and their irrational and single-minded support for the coal industry.

 

Look at that trenchant opposition to renewables, then look how far renewables have come despite it. If the last 10-12 years had seen bi-partisan support for renewables, imagine how far along this change we'd be now.

 

Coal for electricity generation is the new whale blubber. Yes, a country might, against all logic and good sense, continue an outmoded and unpopular industry at huge cost, like Japan does with their annual "scientific" whaling expeditions. Or they could just leave it in the ground and get on with the change that needs to happen.

This is what happens when all you have is the ABC.Yes change needs to happen, but lets do it properly. SA has completely ballsed it up, and we have a whole bunch of people wanting to follow them.

 

Nuclear would be perfect for us, but for some reason we listen to people with little understanding of reality and big on scaremongering and virtue signalling.

 

Not every country has colonial assets in the middle of the Pacific to test their nuclear technology, I wonder how the EU would feel about China and India testing nuclear technology in the Northern Atlantic?

And believing that nuclear weapons testing is the same as power generation, is just the sort thing thing peddled by the ignorant. The same sort of people whole oppose food and medical equipment sterilisation by irradiation, but have no problem getting a X-ray.

[fly_tornado]

gotta dump your nuclear waste somewhere, no fan of nuclear power wants it in their backyard

 

 

[danny_galaga]

As they are designed to absorb energy from the wind to create electricckery and not create thrust, I don't see it being an issue.

Catweasle!

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

gotta dump your nuclear waste somewhere, no fan of nuclear power wants it in their backyard

Please, lets transfer this discussion to the off topic forum

[coljones]

Not every country has colonial assets in the middle of the Pacific to test their nuclear technology, I wonder how the EU would feel about China and India testing nuclear technology in the Northern Atlantic?

Talking like that will have the frogs coming over and blowing up your tinny.

[Glenn Wilson]

In that case water turbines are even more beautiful; you can't see them.

I see my water turbine often. It's not a thing of beauty but has allowed us to be totally off grid for 23 years!

[Jabiru7252]

The Snowy 2.0 is a total crock! I have been interested in hydro power since I was a kid and dad worked for Kaiser on the Tumut developments. The mainstream media do not do the slightest of due diligence when reporting the outrageous claims made for this fantasy. eg. Whenever an article appears the length of the tunnel connecting Tantangara to Talbingo is quoted as somewhere around 27km. Any map reader shows that the shortest distance between these points is around double that. Many highly qualified engineers have given back of the envelope costings of over $8b but the jounalists stick doggedly to Turnbull's headline figure of $2b. The difference in elevation between Tantangara and Talbingo (head) is in excess of 750m. There are no hydro plants in the world that operate with this great a head. The only one that I am aware of is in Russia which suffered a catastrophic failure accounting for fatalaties. Then the distance involved puts extreme loads in regulating a column of water many, many km in length and over 12m dia with a velocity of 3m/s. There are many sites around Australia which are more practical for development of pumped hydro but they don't have the political cache of " The Mighty Snowy Scheme".Don't be mislead, this is simply PR BS designed to make Turnbull appear to have substance!

When I was in about grade 5 or 6 I remember how a teacher said that hydro-electricity was where water was turned into electricity. I thought that was amazing and desperately wanted to know how it was done. When I discovered what really went on, I was quite disappointed.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

I notice most of the people here fly aircraft powered by hydrocarbon (petrol mainly) fuels, not gliders. Tells you a lot about the utility of wind and solar power for aircraft doesn't it?

 

The maritime industry gladly gave up sails when steam became available and now sail powered boats are just for fun.

 

Nobody ever used a windmill to grind grain if a perennial stream could be used to power a waterwheel.

 

All of which should tell you heaps about the reliability, utility and economics of wind and solar. The only thing renewable about wind is the whirligigs themselves which need both regular and unforecast replacement which involves concrete, steel,composites and various exotic metals along with diesel fueled transport to get them on site and diesel fueled transport to inspect and maintain them.

 

As for the bilge about reliability and flexibility, too bad about when it is nighttime and the wind isn't blowing.

 

Oh well, it has been 500 years give or take since the Renaissance which started our rational, scientific, technological civilisation. Not a bad run. I'm sure you will all like the Third World.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

My dream aircraft is a solar-electric glider where every surface which catches the sun is solar collector and it has batteries for take-off. It could cruise all day above the clouds.

 

Imagine the fun of racing with these.

 

A really big drone one could recharge its batteries during the day to stay up overnight and would perhaps be cheaper than a satellite.