AirVenture Australia is landing in Cessnock this September

[Downunder]

My gripe, and I told it directly to the CEO and President 6 months before last years show to no avail, was that the schedule of events isn't published till virtually the last minute.

 

If I'm going to travel interstate, alot of planning is required. I would like to know EXACTLY what I am coming for...... Being told "It will be great", "There will be heaps of seminars", doesn't really cut it...

 

Ideally at least 3 months before the event, it needs to be published..... 12 months in the planning, you would think they would have some sort of an idea what was going to happen well before the event?

 

 

[derekliston]

Sure, and the current industry is of course important to support and invigorate, I'm just suggesting that the people who don't arrive in an airplane are a more important target auidience to substain and grow the industry.

 

With the modern gen I believe more fighter related planes like the Tuscano, more colourful stuff like the Foxbat, and like them or not, Euro plastics.

 

An 'X' gen is more likely to want an Opal Facet than a Chipmonk.

 

No argument with that, only with the difficulty in getting up close and personal with them at a young age nowadays.

[derekliston]

Derek I agree, but the way to attract people is to allow them to get up close and personal. I have been involved with the Old Station fly in for many years and what seems to be the thing people like is the ability to wander along the flight line. We have had all sorts of people wandering around, including families with kids in pushchairs, and the aircraft have also been able to taxi around, without any incidents. That includes taxiing taildraggers where the pilot cannot see directly ahead. Maybe we have been lucky safety wise, but we make our own luck.

Pretty much what I said (or meant anyway) but you still need to have people they can talk to and whilst I can understand pilots wanting to congregate and swap stories, the visitors need to be able to ask questions and not just wander around looking at empty aeroplanes. I might point out that I really am not the most sociable of people and find it difficult talking to strangers, but I do it because I really want to encourage people, especially young people, to enjoy all facets of aviation as much as I do.

[red750]

As someone no longer involved, I may be out of place joining this discussion. But as I see it, you are trying to achieve two incompatible goals.

 

1. Do you want a get-together of aviators, to discuss the latest developments, swap stories, enjoy the camaraderie of like minded individuals,

 

or

 

2. Conduct an event to invite and encourage new blood into the pastime from the general public?

 

The nearest thing that comes to mind is Avalon Air Show, with trade days where the general public is excluded, then a couple of days to entertain and educate the public. I know this is difficult and expensive to organise and run, and I don't know if it's possible to do a cut-down version. Organisers could do like the Lilydale Air Show did and involve local groups like the Men's Shed to provide parking and crowd marshals, food stalls etc. (they run lots of sausage sizzles at places like Bunnings), with profits from these going to the group.

 

On the public day, have two separate areas, one for active aircraft, well away from any public access, and one for static display where the public can get close to the aircraft. Dealers, pilots, instructors etc to be on hand to answer questions and supervise inspections. Again, I understand that Lilydale had such arrangements (I couldn't get there, I was at the hospital emergency dept awaiting a chest x-ray.) Maybe such an arrangement would work, just a suggestion.

 

 

[Peter Anson]

Derek I agree, but the way to attract people is to allow them to get up close and personal. I have been involved with the Old Station fly in for many years and what seems to be the thing people like is the ability to wander along the flight line. We have had all sorts of people wandering around, including families with kids in pushchairs, and the aircraft have also been able to taxi around, without any incidents. That includes taxiing taildraggers where the pilot cannot see directly ahead. Maybe we have been lucky safety wise, but we make our own luck.

I'd like to back up Yenn on this. At Narromine there is no access to parked aircraft for the general public; good for security but not for interest. I went to the last Old Station fly-in and remember spending quite a long time talking to a couple of kids who were keen on becoming pilots. It was good for them and didn't do me any harm either. I always wander around and look at the aircraft myself so this should be available to the general public. If they can do it at Oshkosh, why not here?

 

 

[derekliston]

I'd like to back up Yenn on this. At Narromine there is no access to parked aircraft for the general public; good for security but not for interest. I went to the last Old Station fly-in and remember spending quite a long time talking to a couple of kids who were keen on becoming pilots. It was good for them and didn't do me any harm either. I always wander around and look at the aircraft myself so this should be available to the general public. If they can do it at Oshkosh, why not here?

Preaching to the converted mate! I too was at the last Old Station fly-in and that is how they should all be.

[rankamateur]

It is how they all should be! Was the last Old Station fly-in also the FINAL one?

 

 

[Raytol]

Australia is such a large place that deciding to put a national event on is always going to be a problem! Where to have it?

 

Do you go for a large population centre or for a pilot friendly airport. Do you find the epicentre of aircraft owners and put it "out in the sticks"?

 

It doesn't seem to matter where it is held , you are not going to please everybody!

 

I have been to some good and some not-so-good air shows in my time and I admire anyone who puts up their hand to organise one!!

 

I will be at Cessnock or anywhere else they have it.

 

 

[Raytol]

Oh, I forgot to mention. The best air shows are the ones where the "punters" could get to have a fly in an aircraft. Even at the busiest airshow in the world,

 

Oshkosh EAA airshow in the USA, they have the inspirational "Young Eagles" flights and manufacturers demonstration flights ( which sell aircraft).

 

Static displays don't inspire potential participants.

 

 

[derekliston]

Oh, I forgot to mention. The best air shows are the ones where the "punters" could get to have a fly in an aircraft. Even at the busiest airshow in the world,Oshkosh EAA airshow in the USA, they have the inspirational "Young Eagles" flights and manufacturers demonstration flights ( which sell aircraft).Static displays don't inspire potential participants.

Agreed on all points. I shall be there if I can possibly do it. Missed Narromine last year but got there the year before.

[Yenn]

We just don't know if there will be another Old Station fly in.

 

It was not going to be held this year, because the Creed family, who own Old Station are celebrating 150 years on the property. That is a big thing to organise and so the airshow was cancelled.

 

With the death of Leonie Creed, who was the guiding light for all the airshows, we have lost a wonderful person and also the person who did all the organising. I am not going to step up and try to organise another show and I don't know if anyone else will. Time will tell.

 

 

[Markdun]

Here's my two bobs worth. I've been to 4 Narromine fly-ins and 2 at Temora, flying my Minimax, Cygnet or in a Thruster. I went for the flying there; to have a sticky at other planes, particularly homebuilts for ideas and to see how others had overcome tricky or not so tricky problems; to fly in different planes and to take people for a fly in my plane (obviously not the Minimax); to meet people and socialise and in the evening to tell and listen to lies, mostly about flying, over 1 maybe 2, 3 or 4 alcoholic drinks in evening. I didn't go to be hectored, berated and lectured at about safety (I'm from the tribe that reckon flying in small planes is bloody dangerous and its just pissing into the wind to think otherwise). And I didn't go to Narromine last year because it was unclear to me whether it was a fly-in or not...it was billed as an 'airshow' with heavy fast aircraft, there was no information about camping under the wing etc etc, and it was even unclear it was a RAA event. By the time i learnt otherwise i had made other plans. I'd be keen to fly in to Cessnock, but the interest pull is not that strong if it's just a bunch of commercial shops without lots of interesting (homebuilt or unique) planes. Jabs & Tecnams are great planes but I'm not that keen to look at 20 of them that are all much the same.

 

 

[Guest Guest]

Here's my two bobs worth. I've been to 4 Narromine fly-ins and 2 at Temora, flying my Minimax, Cygnet or in a Thruster. I went for the flying there; to have a sticky at other planes, particularly homebuilts for ideas and to see how others had overcome tricky or not so tricky problems; to fly in different planes and to take people for a fly in my plane (obviously not the Minimax); to meet people and socialise and in the evening to tell and listen to lies, mostly about flying, over 1 maybe 2, 3 or 4 alcoholic drinks in evening. I didn't go to be hectored, berated and lectured at about safety (I'm from the tribe that reckon flying in small planes is bloody dangerous and its just pissing into the wind to think otherwise). And I didn't go to Narromine last year because it was unclear to me whether it was a fly-in or not...it was billed as an 'airshow' with heavy fast aircraft, there was no information about camping under the wing etc etc, and it was even unclear it was a RAA event. By the time i learnt otherwise i had made other plans. I'd be keen to fly in to Cessnock, but the interest pull is not that strong if it's just a bunch of commercial shops without lots of interesting (homebuilt or unique) planes. Jabs & Tecnams are great planes but I'm not that keen to look at 20 of them that are all much the same.

That's well written from a pilots perspective. There's basically two titles or tags given to these events, Airshows & Fly-ins, the basis is the same (aircraft) but they are mostly aimed at two diff audiences. Airshows are designed for the general public (who obviously have an interest in aviation, Avalon for eg where pilots showing up are also the general public) whereas Fly-ins are targeting mainly pilots cause that's what the title says" fly in" & usually involve smaller personal a/c.

Both need each other to be successful beyond their original intention.

 

Personally Airshows don't do much for me and fly-ins can be rather clicky, I select very few to attend these days basing my desire on recommendations by friends, each to there own and that's just my take on it.

 

 

[Aerodavetoorbul]

Like Derek, I too used to ride to the airport (Mascot) to watch the aircraft, also to Rose Bay to see the Sunderland & Catalinas come and go. What’s this about the grey heads? I am over 70 and have just got my RPC and am about to start on my nav cert. There are a lot of mature aged flyers out there so go easy on us.

 

 

[red750]

It's not grey, it's silver, and mine is silver with an airstrip down the middle.

 

 

[jetjr]

been discussed before, there wasn't much stopping people walking amongst parked aircraft. Not sure how you control non flying people getting in the way of aircraft moving in and out.

 

Camping was the same setup as previous ...10x? events there.

 

Car parking was done by local VRA I think. Aircraft parking done by local pilots.

 

There was for sure a false start with the Ozrunways/Avplan funding debarcle.

 

West NSW needs another airshow right now, seem to bring on rain. Very little since last event!

 

Bit hard to have aircraft on display AND active versions for flights - doubles cost for those displaying. Moving them around between areas with people wandering around was seen as a risk I thought.

 

Moving every few years might be a good approach, at least gets local support. Also will force rethink of each site and setup.

 

Can just hope the organisers maintain interest or it will disappear.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Not sure how you control non flying people getting in the way of aircraft moving in and out.

Oshkosh is a pretty good example

 

 

[cscotthendry]

I went to the one they called "OzKosh" at Narromine and I see they're now calling this one "Airventure Australia". Unless this event is somehow linked with Airventure Oshkosh, I think the name is a bit cringeworthy. Why couldn't they call it something uniquely Australian. I have been to Oshkosh and for RA-Aus to try and leverage the name with our local "airshow" seems a bit pathetic.

 

But in any case, I hope it is a success this year. We fly into Cessnock to get our annual service done there and the facility is pretty good. It's a bit further from town than Narromine was. In strong westerlies, landing there can be a little tricky as there is a ridge to the west of the airfield that generates a bit of turbulence over the runway. There is some amazing views on the run in from the northwest as you fly over the coal mines.

 

 

 

[red750]

I know nothing about Cessnock, have never been there, and very little about airshows other than having attended a dozen or so over many years, including Avalon (5), Laverton (4), Pt Cook, Lilydale, Moorabbin. But looking at Cessnock Airport on Google satellite view, it appears to have the perfect setup with areas well separated, by the runway, to keep spectators away from moving aircraft, but still having a place for a static display, on the side of the airport closest to the main road into town. It appears to fit perfectly into the suggestion I made in post #47 in the thread A time now sadly gone. The image below illustrates what I mean. I could be way off beam, just my 2c worth.

 

 

 

[Bryon]

It's not grey, it's silver, and mine is silver with an airstrip down the middle.

Is that the opposite to a "Brazillian"

 

[Yenn]

The difference between an airshow and a fly in is, that at an Airshow, there is a designated time for display aircraft to fly. All other flying ceases there at that time and the flying is conducted under different rules. Most of our shows consist of a fly in with one or two airshows conducted during the time of the fly in.

 

CASA has special rules for airshows and they are new. They can be there to make sure all is done correctly, or they can even stay away. My opinion of them is that they are not looking to cause problems for anyone, but they will act if they see something blatantly wrong.

 

I have seen far more stupid requirements from aerodrome operators, than from CASA.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Robinsm Said

 

" not even the genuine thanks of the management of the organisation."

 

Well I certainly owe Carol Richards a hearty "THANK YOU".

 

Well done Carol,

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

TV advertised Mudgee airshow this weekend.

 

Guess what

 

It RAINED on Sunday

 

I hope it's enough to turn this Brown land, green again.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Camel]

The difference between an airshow and a fly in is, that at an Airshow, there is a designated time for display aircraft to fly. All other flying ceases there at that time and the flying is conducted under different rules. Most of our shows consist of a fly in with one or two airshows conducted during the time of the fly in.CASA has special rules for airshows and they are new. They can be there to make sure all is done correctly, or they can even stay away. My opinion of them is that they are not looking to cause problems for anyone, but they will act if they see something blatantly wrong.I have seen far more stupid requirements from aerodrome operators, than from CASA.

One thing i know is that no pilot is permitted to fly over a crowd or gathering and if so it is deemed as an airshow ! Needing permission from Casa !

[spacesailor]

A bit more on that Mudgee advert. The Airshow is on the 28th April (next weekend

 

spacesailor