101 dumb questions from a NUBIE

[Dave_S]

I'm thinking I'd like a minimalist 2 seater that can take off and land on flat water, paddocks and beaches that folds up as small as possible to go on a boat. I know from other forums on things I am familiar with that this will be a dumb question but I'm going to start somewhere.

 

We are a couple of heavyweights so some grunt and space might be needed, not looking for performance but short easy take off and landing.

 

Also like to join a club SE Queensland (I'm between Brisbane and the Gold Coast)

 

 

[Soleair]

Hi Dave, & welcome to the forum.

 

So, you're looking for a plane to carry two heavyweights; short takeoff & landing; bush strip amphibian that folds up small enough to go on a boat.

 

I'm sorry to say, AFAIK there's no such animal. You might be able to get 2 of any of those requirements in one aircraft, but you'll be struggling to get more. But on the bright side, at least you didn't add 'cheap' as well!

 

You might want to look at a 912 powered trike. They will fold, but take a fair bit of time to rig & space even de-rigged. As a start point, you could go here but you'd need to enquire whether they'll take floats. If they do, the floats alone will be pretty bulky.

 

Good luck with your research.

 

Bruce

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

We have a RANS Courier S7. The wings fold back for trailer-ing and I have seen one with floats. The seating is one behind the other with plenty of shoulder width. Husband is over 6' & 100kg and fits happily in the front. I found the rudder pedals to be too far away for me in the back seat and the stick too far away. Being a home built we could remodel the stick with a goose neck and rudder extensions. The visibility is fantastic with window either side and above from the back seat. I am chief photographer. So I guess someone bigger than me would fit right in. It is good at short take offs and landings, depending on your definition of short. It needs little runway. It is a tail wheel. Very much like a Cub.

 

Another one we looked at was the Sherwood Ranger from England. The wings fold back even better than the RANS for a more compact purpose built trailer, but I have not seen floats on them.

 

 

[red750]

[pmccarthy]

Fly Synthesis Catalina. Though I’ve never seen one in the flesh.

 

 

[Downunder]

I think a trike (microlight) is your best option. There are plenty of 912 trikes going cheap and 2 stroke 582's even cheaper....

 

They operate on floats but I'm not sure how you would get it on a boat... a davit hoist maybe....

 

airborne trike on floats - Google Search

 

 

 

[robinsm]

no such thing as a dumb question, only dumb answers

 

 

[Dave_S]

Thanks

 

Might have to give up on the water takeoff! :-(

 

I'm thinking one step up from paramotor, something with wheels like the trikes. Weightshift is the sort of thing.

 

Watching the videos, the hang gliding wing folds up nicely, it would be nice if the front beam of the wing could come apart in 2 pieces to be shorter when packed then the whole thing looks like it would fit in the front locker with the prop and wheels removed.

 

 

[SSCBD]

Not knowing your flying status or if you have a pilot cert but I am assuming not - I would suggest you rack up a few hundred hours before playing on water. Experience really dose count in many varied conditions especially on water. Its not as easy as you may think it is. No offence.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

. Husband is over 6' & 100kg .

Well no more female jokes around here from me then ...

I've seen numbers of videos of Ultralights on floats, I suggest you Youtube that search term.

 

 

[Chris SS]

There is definitely one aircraft that’ll do all of that.

 

 

 

[nomadpete]

What really matters is,......

 

Just how big is the aft deck of your yacht?

 

 

[Downunder]

The hard part is making it "2 up". Plenty of lightweight singles.... Airborne Australia - Magni Gyroplanes / Gyrocopters / Autogyro

 

 

[bexrbetter]

You might be better off waiting a year or two to see which one of these electric verticopters, that are being feverishly worked on right now, actually makes the grade.

 

Won't be cheap though.

 

 

[Yenn]

Would a powered parachute do the trick? I don't know anything much about them, but they look promising.

 

 

[Flying Binghi]

Not knowing your flying status or if you have a pilot cert but I am assuming not - I would suggest you rack up a few hundred hours before playing on water. Experience really dose count in many varied conditions especially on water. Its not as easy as you may think it is. No offence.

Sound advice. My recollection of my first few hundred hours were what I wanted to fly, and what I found suited my needs, changed quite a bit.

.

 

 

[Callahan]

I've owned a Wizard Trike on floats. Fine in the air. On water, a pain in the butt getting over or under the control bar...ingress & egress. In wind, while on water, the bar flops all over, you have to sometimes hang on to it with both hands limiting a need to do other things. That & other things. Just thought it was more trouble than worth. Sold it.

 

Whatever you get, make it high wing & 3 axis control with a 582 minimum power. This info from 48 years in ultralights.

 

No offense to those of you who prefer trikes on floats. Just my opinion.

 

ThanksMight have to give up on the water takeoff! :-(

I'm thinking one step up from paramotor, something with wheels like the trikes. Weightshift is the sort of thing.

 

Watching the videos, the hang gliding wing folds up nicely, it would be nice if the front beam of the wing could come apart in 2 pieces to be shorter when packed then the whole thing looks like it would fit in the front locker with the prop and wheels removed.

[DingerPPC]

Would a powered parachute do the trick? I don't know anything much about them, but they look promising.

Definately rules out water take offs . But v easy to transport.

[bizwise]

It depends upon whether you want to carry the whole aircraft with you on your boat and obviously how big your boat is.

 

A flexwing trike on floats might appear to be the best solution, if you have a big enough boat, but the leading edge booms do not break down nor its long floats. They will certainly not fit in your front boat locker unless you have a really big boat. The Airborne trike shown below is suspended across the stern of a big beamy boat, but you still need lots of room around it to rig its folding wings when it is on the water. Best to tow it ashore and rig it.

 

My 92hp 4-stroke D-motor powered Fly Synthesis Catalina NG 2-seater flying boat ‘Ding’ is heavier (320kg basic empty weight BEW and 545kg maximum takeoff weight MTOW) with folding 9.5m wings and 6.3m total length (see my Avatar). It cannot be rigged on water, so it needs a much bigger boat with sufficient deck space around the flying boat hull (3.6m long with 1.64m beam) and use of a telescopic deck davit to lower it onto the water after rigging. Its hull is based upon the Ramphos folding flexwing amphibious trike, but you have the same on-water rigging problem with the Ramphos.

 

The Polaris Motor 11.2m folding flexwing amphibious trike is based upon an inflatable boat hull and another boat-based solution with a BEW of 216kg and maximum takeoff weight MTOW of 406kg, but still the same on-water rigging problem.

 

A lighter, more compact, though high risk and operationally complex boat-based solution might be a 64hp 2-stroke Rotax 582 powered 2-seater Aerochute fitted with inflatable floats on its 100kg three wheeled frame. It has a 300kg MTOW. You would need sufficient deck room like a catamaran to secure it on the stern of your boat.

 

Climb aboard with your passenger, steer your boat directly into wind, release and inflate the chute above the water like they do to launch towed parasailers. Then start the Aerochute engine when risers and lines are clear, apply power to match boat speed, unlock the Aerochute from the deck and allow the weak link-protected tow line to slowly reel out, then release it from the boat end. Reel in the tow rope to the Aerochute after release.

 

It would be messy to retrieve that 10.7m span 34sqm salt water-soaked chute on a full-stop water landing upon your return to your boat. Lowering the tow rope from the Aerochute over the boat for an aerial hook-up to the boat stern while it is underway again could be achieved after lots of practice. Then you could be slowly winched in without getting your chute or your feet wet and locked down again. Two-way radio communications would be essential. Approval from the manufacturer (and no doubt CASA who certified it in its standard land configuration) for float installation and complex high risk water launch/recovery operations demanding highly competent boat and aircrew would be involved. You would also use up lots of boat fuel.

 

A safer and less complex aircraft and operations in the Experimental Category might be to combine a Polaris-like amphibious hull with its Rotax 582 engine, propeller and seating inside a roll cage that is necessary for chute operations, together with a larger chute than the Aerochute to carry the extra weight. You could use the inflatable hull as an airboat tender without deploying the chute. You could motor ashore for a safer beach takeoff and landing if one is nearby, but more trouble logistics-wise. Otherwise, you could revert to the high risk deck launch and retrieval method for the Aerochute if you have the rear deck room. I could imagine such a configuration would be difficult to control under the chute due to large hull windage, especially in gusty wind conditions.

 

As an avid angling aviator, I far prefer my Catalina NG fun fishing flying boat to quickly get to my favourite fishing spots safely and directly or go long distance touring. With minimalist camping gear, I can sleep aboard in my net-covered hammock suspended between the wing struts under the wing. And I do not have to waste my time dragging a boat long distance behind my car on a trailer to and fro.

 

It all depends upon whether your focus is on family boating with a dash of fun flying or fun flying and touring with a dash of boating and fishing.

 

In the latter case, you can operate independently if you have sufficient competent boat crew, and just meet up later at a suitable anchorage point and take everyone flying anyway. At the end of the day, you can tie up the flying boat to your boat in protected waters, enjoy everyone’s company and sleep aboard your boat in luxury.

 

Cheers

 

Dale

 

 

 

 

[nashy]

ThanksMight have to give up on the water takeoff! :-(

I'm thinking one step up from paramotor, something with wheels like the trikes. Weightshift is the sort of thing.

 

Watching the videos, the hang gliding wing folds up nicely, it would be nice if the front beam of the wing could come apart in 2 pieces to be shorter when packed then the whole thing looks like it would fit in the front locker with the prop and wheels removed.

Next step up from a paramotor is a powered parachute, Two seats, easy to transport, cheap, will take heavy weights ( depending on the type ) Or you can also get a tandem paramotor.

[Kev]

Larry at Adelaide Airsports has a neat Cygnet for sale

 

 

[Callahan]

You guys have your own opinions & I respect them. But from what I've just read & know from experience, it just seems like a whole lot of trouble via floats using a wing or powered parachute.

 

A high wing Drifter (for example) on wide Full Lotus floats worked for me. You can step out of the aircraft, take a leak, fish, have a drink, no wing to climb around etc. Convenient.

 

That said, for those of you who prefer Trikes & floats...more power to you & no offense!

 

My video "Drifter Flying Part 2" shows my Drifter on Full Lotus. Two photos from yesterday after a beach landing in Florida USA.