New member, lousy pilot, getting ready to build an experimental (Sling 2, Arion Lightning XS, or RV-

[facthunter]

Geez, Nothing's sacred around here..  Nev

 

 

[boleropilot]

nope

 

 

[CAVU Mark]

RVs will have the most value retention.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Welcome aboard!  Umm don't think you'll get 175 knits cruise or TAS in an RV9? 

 

 

 THAT "which one" comment has been around a long time. The actual landing is only one part of flying but it attracts the most attention, and comment. On a lot of middle eastern airlines the passengers clap the landing.

I recall a flight with my Father, from Beirut to Baghdad in the early 1960s,. . .we were the only 'Whiteish' passengers on the flight, . . .as one would have expected in those days ( forgive me, I was only twelve years of age )  our landing at Baghdad was loudly applauded by most of the passengers,. . I can't honestly remember if any of the numerous Goats bleated at all. . .  ( There were several of these on dog leads in the passenger cabin, . . .I DO remember that the Aircraft had four propellers. . .possibly a DC-6, but the writing on the sides of it was all in uninteligable squiggles )

 

 

[facthunter]

 Yes still plenty of DC-6's around then. You cross a bit of high country on that trip. Usually snow covered (Where the Tigris and Euphrates get their water).. Nev

 

 

[Guest langted]

Welcome aboard!  Umm don't think you'll get 175 knits cruise or TAS in an RV9? 

 

 

At those speeds you can get some pretty rough flights on a warm day. Also you outlanding safely becomes less of a real possibility. What's wrong with the 7- ECA?  Nev

 

 

At age 61, I would rule out any aircraft that could not be flown with an LSA licence. The losses from aging are unpredictable and irreversible. If it is going to take four years to build, I would choose a (LSA) kit that will be enjoyable to build. I would not bother trying to build a fast aircraft. By the time you spend four years building it, any performance gains will be lost. A slower aircraft will be easier to fly. Disclaimer: I have 25 hrs only. I have built a tree house but not built an aeroplane.  

As for the 7ECA, I only cruise at about 87 knits (sorry- I couldn't resist), I still have the wood spar (not replaced with newer metal spar), and the fabric is nearly expended.   Instruments-- very limited (airspeed, altimeter, ball, and a G-meter).  I don't like the tandem seating but I do like the tailwheel.   You generally get to your destination faster in a car (albeit in less style), unless you are going to an island or something.

 

All joking aside about knits, knots, or mph (I'm getting a kick out of this forum)--- it appears to me that the RV-9 and the Lightning XS cruise speeds are pretty close to each other when equipped with an O-320 equivalent engine.   In any case, performance is very sufficient for either the RV or Lightning with O-320.  One the other hand, The Sling 2 is an LSA (through and through) and suffers from only being offered with a Rotax 912-- I know its a great engine, but small.   Just looking at the finished airplane, I would go for an RV-9 (or -7), with no regret.  But, in line with "ApenName"'s sentiments about my ever advancing age,  I think i have ruled out the RV-9.   There is a gent in my local EAA who is about a year from finishing an RV-9A.   HE says he has religiously spent about 4 hours a day, for 4 years, with an estimated year to go.   (Hundreds of hours just on the sliding canopy!)   I suspect I would be very similar to him for a number of reasons, and that is about how much time (per day) that I can devote.   (Another guy in my local just finished a RV-8A -- 16 years!)   It seems that however you cut it, quickbuild or not, an RV project is  just too long for me.   (Maybe I'll get into one down the road, just for the challenge of building, without concern whether it ever flies.... but that is not my present objective.)   

 

So:  That leaves the Sling 2 and the Arion Lightning.   Both have either the factory or a dealer/build assist facility nearby (which is a big reason for excluding OTHER LSAs).   Checking on Foreflight,  I looked at a few places that I want to be in "comfortable" flight range -- i.e. less than about 2.5 hours.    A FAST LSA, like the Lightning w/Jabiru 3300 at 120 knits will marginally make my objective, but the Sling 2, alas, at about 100 knits, does not appear that it will.   OF these two, I like both a lot, but for completely different reasons.    The Sling has a sliding canopy on a very wide cockpit (that my wife loved), reasonable build time, excellent, exceedingly complete kit and instructions, very obviously robust gear -- there is nothing "not to like" except pull rivets (minor), higher purchase price (minor difference), and much slower speed (about 112 mph vs. 138 mph).   I suspect it will also have a better resale and may be a bit safer, especially on landing.    The lightning is better looking (my opinion), clearly looks to have a MUCH faster build*, and can be built as an LSA (with Jabiru 3300 power) or it can be built with O-320 type engines for higher speed and climb.   I'm not as comfortable with composites compared to aluminum, and I think resale will be worse.   But, it meets all my objectives.   Note:  wife wasn't at the point of accepting the inevitable when we visited Arion, so she didn't get in the cockpit to compare with the Sling.   It has a tip up canopy and noticeably tighter cockpit, but OK by me.   Summary--At this point, I haven't quite written off the Sling 2, but I'm tending toward either the Lightning LSA (Jabiru) or the faster lightning XS  (O-320).   Basis is better performance and faster expected build time than the Sling 2.   I think I can be done (theoretically) in about a year, so maybe 2 years in reality.

 

* factory offers a 4 week build program for $4000 US per week:  The program is 1 week assembling (builder assist), 1-2 weeks in paint shop, then 2 more weeks (builder assist), then fly off the 40 hour FAA requirement.   I am thinking to do the first week, but transport home for the rest to save $8000 and to be more involved in the building.  

 

So, that's where I'm at (today, that is)   Thanks for all the comments!

 

Ted

 

 

[facthunter]

People who want a bit of speed often try a Mooney. Magnesium spar and funny wheels.though.  Nev

 

 

[peter]

Less sexy but far, far cheaper would be a Sonex. The kits are predrilled, very complete, and with aJab 3300 a 120 knot cruise should be achievable. I built my Onex in 2and a half years whilst working full time, travelling a lot and still flying my old plane and doing my TW endorsement. I have found Sonex great to deal with, airframe is very robust and capable of basic aerobatics.

 

better yet, go back to a single seat and build a Subsonex!

 

 

[Phil Perry]

what about 175 mph?

Is that English miles per hour, or American ones,. . their SI units seem different to ours ( ! )

 

 

[Phil Perry]

People who want a bit of speed often try a Mooney. Magnesium spar and funny wheels.though.  Nev

Feller I met a couple of times some years ago; had a fatal accident in a Mooney,. . .  He was flying back from White Waltham, which is underneath the Heathrow zone, in the London area, it was bright sunshine and CAVOK there, but halfway back, he flew into a front and went IMC.    He had an I/R once upon a time,  but many years before. . . he was headed for a little WW2 airfield called Sleap, in Shropshire, . . .but between It and Him was an extinct volcano now known as The Wrekin, which topped out at 1,320 feet elevation.   He fell into the 'rapidly lowering pressure trap'  and failed to compensate for the altimetric difference.  Passed over Halfpenny Green ( NOW Wolverhampton Airport ) reporting 1,500 feet. . .and his aircraft struck the 'Eagles Eye' a rock face at the top of the Wrekin, less than thirty feet from the summit. . . The AAIB estimated the impact at circa 150 Kt. . .  very little left of it. . . Both he, and his impromtu passenger,. .the airfield handyman, never knew what hit them. . .At least it would have been quick.

 

Two dead. . . .Very sad that.   But eminently avoidable with proper planning.   I had flown this Mooney once myself,. . . and it was a lovely sports car ride. . . albeit a bit thirsty on the avgas and of course, dangly dunlops to remember. . . .  ( Plebs like me are always concerned with the price of fuel. . .)  He had owned a small chain of Butcher shops. . . must be money in meat,. . .My mate Merv, in Cannock is a butcher too,. . .he owns a 1/3rd share in a Piper Malibu and NO. . . . he won't lend it to me. . .( Swine )   He says,. . . I can have a go when I get my ticket back. . .

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Has anyone noticed that our Airline Pilot friend ( with the big Pitts Radial ) has been missing for a while ?. . .reason I ask is that I copied one of his posts yonks ago and forgot about it,. . entitled something like, 'Why I don't wanna be a Pilot'. . it was enlightening and funny.   I am ashamed that I can't remember his 'Handle'   Only , I'd like to republish it on a UK Blog, but I can't do that without his permission. . . . 

 

EDIT **

 

AHHHH. .. I jUst remembered. . DUTCHROLL.    I sincerely hope that he is well and still around . . .

 

 

[johnm]

kind thoughts for DRoll Phil - nice

 

WHERE ARE YOU DUTCHROLL

 

this site does not dwell to much on those that leave ..............

 

 

[ClintonB]

I would love to build,but I love to fly more. I have a 65-70kt Raa plane in shed, but the allure of speed has resulted in a 120kt Cessna 182f.

 

its plenty fast enough. That keeps you on your toes enough to log on trips. And the sums are good at 2 NM a minute, and 1litre a minute fuel( gives a little extra safety margin).

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

I would love to build,but I love to fly more. I have a 65-70kt Raa plane in shed, but the allure of speed has resulted in a 120kt Cessna 182f.its plenty fast enough. That keeps you on your toes enough to log on trips. And the sums are good at 2 NM a minute, and 1litre a minute fuel( gives a little extra safety margin).

See? What you all need is a *practicable* aircraft! The idea of choosing an aircraft to make the maths simple is perfect! The only confusion I have is how come you did not just throttle the RAA plane back a little more and do one kt a minute? I suppose it is because the fuel maths was completely messed up, or the tank held an odd number of litres. 

 

 

[flyvulcan]

I am undertaking the first week of the Arion Lightning builder assist program for the Lightning that I just ordered in the first week of July.  I’d be happy to report my experience here so that you have an idea of what to expect.

 

My Lightning will have our (currently under development) 200hp turboprop engine in it.  That is really going to be interesting!

 

Dave

 

 

[peter]

Please do keep us posted Dave, I am very interested to hear as much as possible about the whole project,

 

cheers Peter

 

 

[Guest langted]

Looking forward greatly to Dave's updates!!   I'm still leaning toward the Lightning.   However, just to make life difficult, the US "airplane factory" rep for the Sling 2 just informed me that the Rotax 914 will fit in the Sling 2 (not advertised, but compatible with design).   Not sure what I think about having a turbo (no experience with them, so more research needed), but the 914 (vs 912) wakes up the Sling 2 and gets it just into my target range for speed and climb.   (They are also doing a slight redesign on the four seat Sling 4 to accept the new Rotax 915.   That's really a great buy if you want 4 seats, but pricey if 2 seats are enough)

 

Ted

 

 

[flyvulcan]

Please do keep us posted Dave, I am very interested to hear as much as possible about the whole project,cheers Peter

 

 

Will do Peter.  I anticipate that the Arion Lightning should arrive back in Adelaide around September/October.  It will go into the workshop of my companies facility in Mile End, next to my jet project.  I plan to have a workshop visit for local enthusiasts to show off both the projects and give everyone an update on the progress of my 200hp turboprop engine.

 

I must get down to Goolwa to look over your Onex.  I’ve been back from the desert for 2 years now but still haven’t caught up with everyone that I’ve wanted to.  Between the business and family, I don’t get much time...

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

 

[peter]

Hi Dave, I am also an intermittent visitor to home /Goolwa, currently based out of Cairns, home late June then late July heading back to the Arctic. I will be home part of September/October and would really appreciate a visit to the factory.

 

The Onex is up and flying again after some engine modifications ( now have full inverted oil - mine is the only VW conversion I am aware of with this) . You are welcome anytime I am home. There is also a second Onex flying at Goolwa and I had the privilege of flying in tandem a couple of weeks ago.

 

Peter

 

 

[Phil Perry]

G'day Ted and welcome - don't put yaself down by telling us you're a lousy pilot mate - at one stage during training I wrote in my logbook "wasting my time, real thoughts of not being able to succeed" - and now? I landed my Drifter a while ago and the landing was not good - I pulled up at the club hangar, walked in and said "anybody see my landing?"

 

A voice from somewhere in the hangar called out "which one"....

 

Mate, some days you're the windscreen, some days you're the bug....

 

Boleropilot

Been there bigstyle mate,. . .I was 25 years old, with a massive 119 hours P1. . . Overflew Bendigo airfield, no one on the bloody wireless,. . .must've gone for lunch I guess,. . casually checked out the windsock ( as you do ) and joined left base and made a lovely, smooth landing approach.   The C-210 screeched and complained like buggery as I touched down, ( a couple of times. . )  and finally got to walking speed on the numbers at the other end. . . couldn't understand why the landing was so bloody fast, the airspeed was bang on. . .. The 'Wireless' suddenly said,. . ."Any particular reason you landed downwind there India Whisky Kilo . . . .? ? ? 

The shame,. . the shock,. . the horror. . . 

 

I did LOG it. . .but never told my two passengers why the landing was so interesting. . .

 

100 Hours = You think you know it all.

 

200 Hours = You KNOW you know it all

 

It's my 68th Birthday on Saturday 2nd June. . . .flown many many hours since then. . .

 

Why I'm still alive must mean I'm destined for greater things. . . . .

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Lots more length to the main runway at Bendigo these days. You could do that and still turn off at the taxiway.

 

 

[Guest langted]

100 Hours = You think you know it all.

200 Hours = You KNOW you know it all

Exactly why I call myself "lousy pilot"....        a self-reminder to keep from becoming cocky and complacent.   

 

 

[Guest langted]

To finish off this string.... After a lot of research, talking to owners, forum feedback, a decision spreadsheet, etc, etc.... The winner is Arion Lightning. I am sending in my deposit in the morning mail. Not sure where I'll be in the que, but probably not too far behind Dave's. Choosing between these airplanes was really tough, the hardest decision I've ever made, but I think I'll be happy. Just too bad Dave's turbo won't be ready. Thanks for comments.

 

 

[old man emu]

This string might be finished, but you've got to start another to tell us about your experience building your plane. The first entry will be to tell us that your order has been confirmed and the expected date of delivery.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

visit the factory and have a test ride in one, the new XS looks like the one to get