What happened with the MTOW change for RAAus

[ave8rr]

It was announced by RAAus CEO to all the members present at the PDP, not just CFIs. I should have said 760kgs, not 750kgs (typo mistake on a small screen not picked up)

Dont you mean it is on their WISH list from CASA? As stated earlier the last info released on this subject was that a weight increase will not be considered until Part 149 is in place.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Excellent news, when does the 760kg take effect?

 

 

[Fred]

So it appears it is still a proposal BUT where does the LAME maintenance  proposal come from?   If you can’t work that out then I can’t help you, it is as plain as the nose on your face.

 

Commensence tells you 100 or 150 kg changes nothing in the maintenance procedure BUT this restriction is being put forward by what was once called to be “our” organisation -  no longer the case.

 

i.e. A L1 can maintain the same aircraft but a L2 is now deemed incompetent -  I wonder who would make such a ridiculous proposal - I’ll leave it there.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Excellent news, when does the 760kg take effect?

hahaha about 5 years away I reckon from what I have been told

 

 

[Roundsounds]

hahaha about 5 years away I reckon from what I have been told

Tongue firmly in cheek!! 

You cant tell the masses this isn’t going to be considered until the next round of reg’s become effective, then turn around and tell us it’s all good now. 

 

 

[turboplanner]

Tongue firmly in cheek!! You cant tell the masses this isn’t going to be considered until the next round of reg’s become effective, then turn around and tell us it’s all good now. 

Apparently you can.

 

 

[01rmb]

From what I understand - this does not mean that something like the Jabiru J230 bought from the factory under the LSA category will be granted a higher weight limit. The LSA category would need to be changed to allow that to happen and as it is aligned to an international standard, it won't happen (for any foreseeable future). If you were to build your own aircraft under a owner builder experimental category then whatever manufacturer weight restrictions apply and then if (when) RAAus is able to manage higher weight categories RAAus would allow registration under the higher weight limit.

 

So unfortunately, even though the aircraft can handle a higher weight limit they will still not be able to take advantage of it if the aircraft was built under the LSA standard legislation.

 

 

[Nightmare]

If you change a 152 to RAA rego, it will have to go to 19 rego, then can't be used for training anyway, right?

Why would it have to go 19 registered? Do Cessna make C152's as kit aircraft?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

It was announced by RAAus CEO to all the members present at the PDP, not just CFIs. I should have said 760kgs, not 750kgs (typo mistake on a small screen not picked up)

 RAA have applied for it....BUT there are quite a lot of processes to go through yet and it will be a long way off due to all the processes. Dont be holding your breath

 

 

[danny_galaga]

Why would it have to go 19 registered? Do Cessna make C152's as kit aircraft?

Correct. At the flight school I’ve been going to they have an Aeronca that was changed from VH to RA Aus and it is definitely a 24 rego and definitely able to train in it. Ill be doing my tail stagger endorsement in it

 

 

[WayneL]

From what I understand, CASA has offered the weight increase to RAA but the aircraft that are eligible must be lame maintained. Problem is some of those aircraft can be maintained by the owner/ builder now under VH rego, so this discrepancy is being looked at by RAA first.

 

 

[Fred]

From what I understand, CASA has offered the weight increase to RAA but the aircraft that are eligible must be lame maintained. Problem is some of those aircraft can be maintained by the owner/ builder now under VH rego, so this discrepancy is being looked at by RAA first.

Interesting to hear how you came up with this understanding.  The secret society style of management is at bit concerning.

 

Is it another case of “I have decided” so shut-up and cop it?

 

 

[Roundsounds]

From what I understand, CASA has offered the weight increase to RAA but the aircraft that are eligible must be lame maintained. Problem is some of those aircraft can be maintained by the owner/ builder now under VH rego, so this discrepancy is being looked at by RAA first.

Great concept for GA engineers, but they’re a dying breed thanks to CASAs regulation reform. 

 

 

[jetjr]

Close to nil existing RAA reg aircraft will be eligible for this without a lift in stall speed.

 

only has to be a small one and theres plenty can use it

 

first ive heard of LAME maint for RA reg aircraft. Some that are eligible (or close) are the same aircraft

 

 

[Blueadventures]

Close to nil existing RAA reg aircraft will be eligible for this without a lift in stall speed.only has to be a small one and theres plenty can use it

 

first ive heard of LAME maint for RA reg aircraft. Some that are eligible (or close) are the same aircraft

Like 150's with both seats in use rather than only one?☺

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Speaking to my contact today. It will still be a long while before anything will come through ..if it does. But there are caveats. For example if the weight limit is 760 kg then any aircraft design weight above this will not be allowed it must be 760kg or less. So for example I am looking at a Rans S21  its design weight is 820kg even though I would fly it at 760kg MTOW its will not be allowed. Case in point is any of those Jabs that are 700kg legal and are being registered in RAA and being flown at the 600kg MTOW is currently fine there will be no more accepted under this "legacy" rule. So anything that was not designed to be max for the weight increase....when it comes....will not be allowed. So any new aircraft even now apparently can not have a design weight of over 600kg if it is to be registered as RAA. The only way forward is to go RPL and VH rego. So a Rans S21 will need to be VH rego and a RPL to fly it minimum. That wont be a problem IF CASA keep to their Basic medical they are promising soon with just the unmodified commercial Austroads licence

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

The above rules are to stop for example a C152 and a seat being taken out to make fit inside RAA rules

 

 

[jetjr]

Doesnt make much sense, the larger Jabiru are all ok to 700 and up to 750kg

 

Its the same aircraft. Can hardly prevent more of them coming onto RAA register.

 

Sounding like these new regs will only apply to new designs made specifically to use it

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

No from what I was told you wont be able to do that any more. I asked him specifically about it. I am pretty sure that is the situation now..everything before is legacy. I am pretty sure I didnt get it wrong . RAA is 600kg max you will not be able to bring anything that can go over that into RAA. With a weight increase then like the Rans example I could not do it..and I cant do it now apparently

 

 

[jetjr]

Wouldn't be the first time a problem has been found with "improved" regulation before its released

 

Not logical that you cant bring an aircraft tested to higher capacity - stronger - into RAA if it meets the stall speed/MTOW limits

 

With homebuilt or experimental the MTOW is actually set by the builder but if too high would be unlikely to be accepted without kit manufacturer support or other evidence Id have thought. Id guess they could reduce MTOW too if they wanted.

 

You maybe cant do it now due to the assessment that the aircraft cannot reasonably be configured to fly under 600kg, ie 1 seat and 20 l fuel to make it under 600kg, it would be likely the owner would fly under MTOW ever.

 

 

[johnm]

Legislators often use the term .................... 'that the new legislation is not retrospective'

 

- all that goes before is not considered

 

- all that happens from now - changes

 

 

[Jaba-who]

This is beginning to take on the mantra “Be careful what you ask for. You might just get it!”

 

Anyone who thinks CASA will give RAA anything without extracting a pound of flesh is living in LaLa Land and we are now seeing the outcome. You might get a few kilos but it will almost certainly be at more expense than you gain. 

 

The same to be said for CTA access - if you ever get it, it will be at the cost of loss of freedom from medicals, loss of freedom to do self maintenance and at increased cost. 

 

There will be a lot of people in GA world sitting back saying “serves you right. You should have quit while you were ahead. “

 

 

[jetjr]

Seems new regulations or requirements apply to those that want to exercise them - not everyone which is fair enough.

 

Youre correct in that many think they will get these upgrades under existing framework - not going to happen.

 

 

[Fred]

CTA is already available for RAA registered aircraft (all be it with a CASA licence) by virtue of CAO 95.55.  I do fear this could be in jepody by incompetence of a couple of people who believe they know all.

 

 

[jetjr]

Yes as discussed above, its not open for RAA pilots or experimental aircraft however

 

This isnt even equal with other types and locence catagories