Landing at Canberra in a Jabiru

[Bruce Tuncks]

An old mate of mine, who knows nothing about flying, lives in Canberra. He recently invited me to visit, thinking that I could just fly there.

 

I was about to reply that landing at Canberra would lead to me being riddled with bullets, then thrown into jail, then being prosecuted for a million infringements and I would be left destitute and in jail.

 

Then I thought that this may be a bit unfair and officialdom may  not be that bad, so why not check out the facts before replying.

 

My Jabiru is a kit-built, with a radio but no IFR stuff, and I have an RAAus certificate and a glider certificate.  I would certainly call up on the radio and obey any tower instructions.

 

Does anybody  know what would actually happen if I had the temerity to land at Canberra?

 

 

[BusaKaine]

You need to have RPL (with CTA/CTR) or PPL/CPL plus a radio and transponder. Then you can request to fly in.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Thanks Busa, what is involved in getting a RPL  ( recreational pilots license?) And the endorsements CTA etc? 

 

The transponder I can understand, I guess it needs to be certified etc.

 

 

[BusaKaine]

For the RPL you will need, an ARN, English proficiency test, 2h of hood time, with 1h being in an aircraft, at least 5h PIC Nav, as Canberra takes rpt you will need a ASIC card. You will need a Medical and then submit the CASA Form 61-1RTX. Then you will just need to do a Flight review and you should be able to include the Controlled Airspace and towered aerodrome as part of it,.

 

 

[BusaKaine]

[Thruster88]

There is a nice grass strip at Hall outside CTA. I don't  know any details but there is often a few aircraft parked.

 

I would be interested in occasionall use if anyone has contact info  

 

 

[jetjr]

Dont think 19 reg can be flown into CTA

 

needs some rare special permit

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Dont think 19 reg can be flown into CTAneeds some rare special permit

Not correct. 

As long as it’s got a transponder and a radio AND the pilot has a suitable GA licence. One of our flying group is a jab 230 rego 19-4xyz.  Fly into CTA regularly. Used to be based at YBCS (class  C  CTA ) till recently. 

 

 

[gibby]

For the RPL you will need, an ARN, English proficiency test, 2h of hood time, with 1h being in an aircraft, at least 5h PIC Nav, as Canberra takes rpt you will need a ASIC card. You will need a Medical and then submit the CASA Form 61-1RTX. Then you will just need to do a Flight review and you should be able to include the Controlled Airspace and towered aerodrome as part of it,.

You will need to do more than a flight review to get your CTA

 

 

[jetjr]

Dont recall but maybe is ok due to being an LSA originally. Maybe its not OK

 

Also im not sure anyone is checkong or even knows this regulation too well

 

There was some discussion here and its something to do with maintenance, as owners, not just builders, can maintain in RAA

 

VH experimental can and so can LSA and certified RAA. There is a permit RAA tech team can issue to allow 19 acess.

 

Just another flaw in CTA access over regulation

 

 

[Nobody]

Dont recall but maybe is ok due to being an LSA originally. Maybe its not OKAlso im not sure anyone is checkong or even knows this regulation too well

 

There was some discussion here and its something to do with maintenance, as owners, not just builders, can maintain in RAA

 

VH experimental can and so can LSA and certified RAA. There is a permit RAA tech team can issue to allow 19 acess.

 

Just another flaw in CTA access over regulation

The rules and requirements are spelt out in the CASA exemption that applies to RAAus Aircraft. It was discusses recently in the forum here.

 

The key section from the exemption is below. The bit I have bolded and underlined is what the RAAus technical people should be able to issue.

 

  7.3     A person must not operate a relevant aeroplane in Class A, C or D airspace, or an active restricted area, unless all of the following conditions are complied with:

 

(a)   the aeroplane:

 

             (i)  is certificated to the design standards mentioned in Schedule 1 to the Civil Aviation Amendment Order (No. R94) 2004 (also known as section 101.55 of the Civil Aviation Orders), as in force on 31 May 2016; or

 

            (ii)  meets the criteria stated in paragraph 21.024 (1) (a) or 21.026 (1) (a), or regulation 21.186, of CASR; or

 

           (iii)  is approved under regulation 262AP of CAR in relation to flights over closely-settled areas;

 

(b)   the aeroplane is fitted with an engine:

 

             (i)  of a type mentioned in paragraph 6.1 of Schedule 1 to the Civil Aviation Amendment Order (No. R94) 2004 (also known as section 101.55 of the Civil Aviation Orders), as in force on 31 May 2016, or of a type that CASA has approved as being suitable for use in a relevant aeroplane; and

 

            (ii)  that is not subject to any conditions that would prevent the flight;

 

©   the aeroplane is fitted with a radio capable of two-way communication with air traffic control;

 

(d)   the aeroplane is flown by the holder of a pilot licence with an aeroplane category rating:

 

             (i)  issued under Part 61 of CASR; and

 

            (ii)  that allows the holder to fly inside the controlled airspace;

 

(e)   the aeroplane’s pilot has a valid flight review for the aeroplane’s class rating, under Part 61 of CASR;

 

(f)    if the controlled airspace in which the aeroplane is operating requires a transponder to be fitted to the aeroplane — the aeroplane is fitted with a transponder suitable for use in the airspace.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Thanks Guys.  I guess I could pass an English test, but I dunno about the cost of doing the rest of those things.

 

Anyway, now I can reply to my mate and tell him why its too hard for me to fly in. All those things would add up to too much  for a casual visit.

 

While I complain a lot,  there probably isn't any major airport in the world which is much better and I'm sure some are worse.

 

And thanks too for the idea of landing at a smaller place near Canberra, that's  what I would tell people coming to Adelaide.

 

A few years ago, another silly old man flew into Brisbane ( I think ) in his small plane. He was from the country and he wanted to catch an airliner to go further. The press reported the incident as a shock-horror risk to safety. Does anybody know what happened to that old man?

 

 

[BusaKaine]

Same as Brisbane, I would say land at YBAF(Archerfield) or YRED(Redcliffe).

 

 

[Camel]

I did my training of Class C at Canberra and it is very straight forward, I recommend get your aircraft approved by RAA and that also means approved and calibrated transponder, calibrated airspeed and altimeter, then get an RPL with Class C endorsement, note that a PPL is already approved for all CTA and does not need an endorsement.  Canberra charges have gone up and it's not a cheap exercise to land and park as I remember ! 

 

 

[turboplanner]

Does anybody know what happened to that old man?

He was probably  riddled with bullets, then thrown into jail, then being prosecuted for a million infringements and I would be left destitute and in jail

 

 

[Admin]

There is Cooma airfield which I think is about an hr's drive away

 

 

[Nightmare]

Gundaroo (YGDO) maybe? It's 15nm north of Canberra.

 

 

[coljones]

Thanks Guys.  I guess I could pass an English test, but I dunno about the cost of doing the rest of those things.Anyway, now I can reply to my mate and tell him why its too hard for me to fly in. All those things would add up to too much  for a casual visit.

 

While I complain a lot,  there probably isn't any major airport in the world which is much better and I'm sure some are worse.

 

And thanks too for the idea of landing at a smaller place near Canberra, that's  what I would tell people coming to Adelaide.

 

A few years ago, another silly old man flew into Brisbane ( I think ) in his small plane. He was from the country and he wanted to catch an airliner to go further. The press reported the incident as a shock-horror risk to safety. Does anybody know what happened to that old man?

Bruce,. It may be easier than you think (don't overthink).  Go and talk to a flying school, which will tell you what their process is to get you over the line (go and talk to a few of them - starting with the one that hates Jabs so that it will get easier - then have a holiday in Albany as I understand the CFI there is a good bloke).  The only things which you won't have done is under the hood, CTA procedures, a medical and a flight review, which might be at a higher level.  You will need a transponder for Class C.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

For the RPL you will need, an ARN, English proficiency test, 2h of hood time, with 1h being in an aircraft, at least 5h PIC Nav, as Canberra takes rpt you will need a ASIC card. You will need a Medical and then submit the CASA Form 61-1RTX. Then you will just need to do a Flight review and you should be able to include the Controlled Airspace and towered aerodrome as part of it,.

Or get a motor glider, you do a simple CTA endorsement and away you go. No medical, no PPL, very simple - just like it should be for RAAus. 

 

 

[Jaba-who]

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/05/qantas-737-held-for-ransom-at-canberra-airport/

 

Another reason to stay away from Canberra airport. They might hijack your plane and hold it for random!!

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I was shocked to find out here  that Canberra Airport is privately owned. Selling the likes of monopoly airports has to be a serious act of economic vandalism.

 

Thank goodness a Jabiru can find somewhere else to go. You can't go elsewhere in a 737.

 

If I had my way, Howard would be fined millions and made destitute. Not thrown into jail though.  

 

 

[Jaba-who]

I was shocked to find out here  that Canberra Airport is privately owned. Selling the likes of monopoly airports has to be a serious act of economic vandalism.Thank goodness a Jabiru can find somewhere else to go. You can't go elsewhere in a 737.

 

If I had my way, Howard would be fined millions and made destitute. Not thrown into jail though.  

Not just Howard government. Labour did the same. Anna Bligh (premier at the time) sold Cairns airport  to QAL (I think that’s their name but could be wrong ) who also own Mackay and somewhere else in Qld ( I just forget at present) I thought it was Canberra but someone on pilot lounge (Facebook) said that its not. Some private businessman owns Canberra apparently. 

And to sweeten the deal they overrode local council bylaws and gave them immunity from local town planning and the town planning act. 

 

And of course QAL immediately ratcheted up fees and costs. Drove most small operators off the field and almost all the private guys ( including me). 

 

 

[kgwilson]

This issue is one of the reasons why the so called reforms are a crock. The medical debacle could have easily been resolved by following the British common sense reform i.e no medical required. So long as an aircraft is registered and has an approved transponder, the pilot is licenced then there is no reason why he or she should not be able to land at any airport other than draconian rules. ATC might have you wait a bit and do a few orbits if RPT traffic is busy . You can do this in a RA aircraft in NZ but not here.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

It should be against common law or something for a government to sell public assets, certainly if they didn't have a clear mandate to do so.

 

Keating sold the commonwealth bank and this is what I remember him for. I  thought he was a good guy until he did that.

 

Ohlson sold Adelaide Housing trust houses for $30,000 and Sydney millionaires thought he was a fool and  bought them up streets at a time.

 

Those millionaires were right and the houses are now selling for $200,000.

 

I would make them all pay restitution.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Well it’s an age old debate isn’t it. 

 

At what point should the tax payer continue to pay out for something that is costing money (sometimes huge amounts) for little ( or perceived little) return. 

 

I think there are probably times when the government (ie the tax payer) should not own and have to continually pay for the running of certain assets when they provide little benefit to few people or could or should be provided by private enterprise. 

 

At  times they have my sympathy because of the decision is a difficult one. 

 

But at times I agree with you the outcomes of selling them off are obvious and should never have been done at all. I think anything which is by its very nature has got to be a monopoly, like regional city airports, should never be given to given to private hands where driving huge profits is the final arbiter of all decisions. Because they are going to screw everyone. 

 

Public services where no competition  can exist,  can’t in any degree of moral fairness be expected to pull profits of the type private companies expect. Lots of Public stuff does not make a profit but is there for the good it produces. 

 

As someone said, to paraphrase Yes Minister, “if we’re going to close down xxx because it’s not profitable,I the roads and footpaths must be getting mighty nervous!”