Replacement Jabiru battery

[onetrack]

This is the way to crank up recalcitrant, old, cold, aero engines!

 

[jetjr]

I think CAE did some work on prop end starter, I saw one somewhere with starter drive shaft to prop end

Was all part of the work to stop flywheel bolt breakages, they thought is could be related to larger torque starters and warned LiPO4 could give problems with flywheel bolts on std Jab designs

Also thought, as Nev said, the two "flywheels" might be working against one another causing vibrations or harmonics.

They ended up redesigning flywheel to crank attachment system

[Bruce Tuncks]

The props you can hand start have an impulse magneto. This flicks the magnet past the coils faster than the prop is turned.

Jabirus don't have an impulse magneto so they need about 300 rpm to start. The good thing about this is how you can feel the engine condition by turning the prop over slowly as part of the DI.

[jetjr]

the back compression on a false start or the accidental double press of starter were seen as possible reasons for bolt breakages

I thought they said it was more prevalent on frequently cold started engines and wasn't around on early models with smaller torque starter.

They also tended to not start more often...…….like cold weather.

[facthunter]

While the starter may crank at say 500 RPM, it's not an even speed as the turn rate slows a lot as the piston gets to the point where it fires the mixture. The impulse set up where it's fitted. (not on a Jab) still works if the motor is hardly turning and is retarded from the "set" timing point so should not kick back against the starter...The jabiru needs to turn fast and not in a series of jerks. Intermittent re-engagement of aero starters is to be avoided if possible. Nothing on an aeroplane is built like that on a bulldozer. It's probably desired to start with the least throttle opening that works well as that eases the load on the starter because the cylinder doesn't fill completely and that's how you want it. Nev

[Yenn]

One of the problems with jabiru starting is the low weight of the prop. It does not have enough inertia, if that is the correct way of saying it.

If you take the prop off a jab, the starter will not get it past TDC. My RV4 with the aluminium prop was much easier to start than my Jab and both had the same battery. All due to the greater flywheel effect.

[SplitS]

https://earthxbatteries.com/

Put one of these in it. They weigh almost nothing and crank way better than the old lead acid.

[Bruce Tuncks]

My Jab has always started very easily. And it has the small starter motor. I wish i knew why ...It has a cheap LiFe battery but it was the same on the old Odessey.

[kgwilson]

I had problems starting my 3300A engine on frosty mornings, so much so that I often had to use a jump starter when the battery faded. When I was in Parkes at Airventure I got up to go home on the Monday morning to find frost on the ground & ice on the airframe. The engine would not fire even with a booster connected. Others also had starting issues but everyone got them going after jump starts except one bloke who had to go into town to buy a new battery.

 

When a L2 asked "What are the plug gaps" I replied the Jabiru recommended setting, about .06mm. He just said "too wide, close them to .05. I reset them all & couldn't feel my fingers by the time I'd finished. I decided to try before putting the cowl back on & it started instantly. I could not believe the difference. I have never had a starting problem since, usually within the first few revolutions on the first crank.

[tillmanr]

kgw your .06mm plug gap is 1/100th the correct size. A slip of the decimal point me thinks.

[Thruster88]

I had problems starting my 3300A engine on frosty mornings, so much so that I often had to use a jump starter when the battery faded. When I was in Parkes at Airventure I got up to go home on the Monday morning to find frost on the ground & ice on the airframe. The engine would not fire even with a booster connected. Others also had starting issues but everyone got them going after jump starts except one bloke who had to go into town to buy a new battery.

 

When a L2 asked "What are the plug gaps" I replied the Jabiru recommended setting, about .06mm. He just said "too wide, close them to .05. I reset them all & couldn't feel my fingers by the time I'd finished. I decided to try before putting the cowl back on & it started instantly. I could not believe the difference. I have never had a starting problem since, usually within the first few revolutions on the first crank.

 

I was told that trick by Wade Marlo in the early 90's when we got our Rotax 582. Normal gap is 0.5mm, if the battery is a bit weak they will not start even though they seem to be turning fast enough. Gap one plug to 0.4mm makes a world of difference. From my high school physics the voltage required to jump a gap is proportional to the square of the gap.

[facthunter]

That "trick" is as old as the hills. You can run .020" /.5 MM. .It does unload all the electrics in the HT area which does little harm except make the idle a bit less steady , but will smooth out as you load it a bit more. A multigrade oil is also helpful with cold start temps, Also don't use suppression leads or Plugs with "R" in the number if you want the best spark and longest life from your coils.. You could also warm the engine with a fan heater if done carefully. (avoid any fuel vapours). Jumper leads are going to put more force through the starter components. Nev

[440032]

What does the latest manual 9 of Nov 2019 say:

0.53-0.58mm or 0.021-0.023 " (and confirms Nev's 0.020 trick to be indeed Jabiru approved for winter.)

Spark plugs must be within the set life and be gapped correctly. In winter spark plug gaps can be reduced as low as 0.020” to allow the plugs to fire more easily.

Manual 8 of May 2019 said the same.

 

Manual 7 of 2016 said:

0.55-0.6mm and

It is recommended to set the gaps at the minimum limit during winter for easier starting. and

Spark plugs must be within the set life and be gapped correctly. In winter spark plug gaps can be reduced as low as 0.020” to allow the plugs to fire more easily

 

Gaps have changed, quietly. Jabiru shows any revisions in the manual at the end, but there was no mention of the gap change in 8 after 7.

Oh, and the specified gaps only apply to the specified D9EA plug, not iridiums.

[jackc]

That "trick" is as old as the hills. You can run .020" /.5 MM. .It does unload all the electrics in the HT area which does little harm except make the idle a bit less steady , but will smooth out as you load it a bit more. A multigrade oil is also helpful with cold start temps, Also don't use suppression leads or Plugs with "R" in the number if you want the best spark and longest life from your coils.. You could also warm the engine with a fan heater if done carefully. (avoid any fuel vapours). Jumper leads are going to put more force through the starter components. Nev

 

In not using suppression leads and/or Resistor spark plugs, your air band radio would suffer interference to good reception especially when looking for decent reception at longer ranges?

[Yenn]

I have no radio interference with my engine, D9EA and non suppressed leads I think.

[Blueadventures]

FULL RIVER make a direct replacement for the Odessey. Available from "Batteries Direct" in Sydney , about $160 delivered to your door. Best battery I ever found.

Got a Full river last week to replace Odessey 680 in my Nynja and it was slight bit wider about 1.5mm other than that happy so far. $170 delivered.

[Red]

I use Yuasa Batteries on my microlights and motorcycles, they don't claim wonders but they do what it says on the tin and are realisticly priced, never had a duff one

not surprising really given their experience at making the things

[Bruce Tuncks]

Red, my Jab kit came with a Yuasa battery and I did a start with it just before a 3 month layoff. During this time, the battery was connected to a cheap solar charger. Next time I tried a start, there was nothing much there. I blamed the charger and not the battery, but I replaced it with an Odyssey and never looked back.

[skippydiesel]

Just curious - why are so many light aircraft owners, wedded to batteries that claim to have aviation DNA, when perfectly good (often better performing & almost always cheaper) batteries designed for motorcycles will do the job handsomely ???

[kgwilson]

Just curious - why are so many light aircraft owners, wedded to batteries that claim to have aviation DNA, when perfectly good (often better performing & almost always cheaper) batteries designed for motorcycles will do the job handsomely ???

I've wondered about this too. I put in a 21 Ah Motobatt with 610 CCA & it hasn't let me down in 5 years & a lot cheaper than an Odyssey. Spins the Jab 3300 easily even on cold winter mornings.

[jetjr]

anything certificated or LSA cannot fit another brand unless Jabiru support it in writing, they wont due to liability so youre stuck with whats in their documents

Many others just follow what manufacturer specifies - smart if you dont know any better.

The remaining few do whatever they want and assess the risk of cheaper brands.

[skippydiesel]

anything certificated or LSA cannot fit another brand unless Jabiru support it in writing, they wont due to liability so youre stuck with whats in their documents

Many others just follow what manufacturer specifies - smart if you dont know any better.

The remaining few do whatever they want and assess the risk of cheaper brands.

 

 

If this is not the case why are you allowed to purchase fuel/oil from any brand/supplier ?

What happens when the battery manufacturer/supplier goes out of business or just doesnt make that product any more?

 

Battery brand can not have any impact on certification/liability, as long as you do not make a radical departure eg Lead Acid to LiFe or increase dimensions (necessitating bracket modifications).

I would also assume that the battery shopper would stick with a sealed battery - not even sure that old style serviceable battery's are still available in motor cycle sizes.

 

As for specifications - mostly these are minimum standards ie you must not fit a battery with less performance. You can install any battery that will fit your cradle & terminal orientation/type (same dimensions) that has higher performance with no detrimental impact on the electrical/starting systems.

 

Higher performing battery's are usually much easier on your starting system, have a longer in service life and in the event of an electrical charging failure, may give you much more time in the air to reach a safe landing .

 

The only other factor to check is battery weight - Conventional (motorcycle) battery weights have been coming down for years now. So if your battery is a vital part of your weight distribution (C of G) you will need to try for a battery with similar weight to the OM unit. This will almost certainly mean that you will select a battery of significantly higher performance than the OM unit.

[jetjr]

Nothing wrong with your logic just that the aircraft are certified (LSA) by Jabiru and they have total say over every component ever used on or in it

If they have a spec to meet no problem but Jabiru say Odyssey PC625

Fuel and oil they have specs to meet now, oil used to have a brand listed

They could say Jabiru battery part number xxxxx in which case you have to buy from them

LSA aircraft approvals are totally linked to Jabiru and any changes to servicing or parts they decide to specify

A big advantage to owner built aircraft.

[facthunter]

The worst battery life I had was from a YUASA omnicron (Top grade) made in Japan. which just made 12 months Just out of warrantee and died. Always charged and regularly used. The ones you buy today are all made in China as are the Century 6 volt sealed types I buy. Acid filled 6volt batteries for motorcycles are not worth fitting. I've tried about 5 of the most popular brand and they just leak acid around the terminals due poor quality. There's a large variation in quality. When these newer type AGM batteries get older they may heat up when charged and discharge themselves rapidly creating even more heat. Never let them sit discharged for long or the are a serious risk They obviously sulphate up very easily and high rates of charge will create bubbles in the GEL which are permanent damage. Nev

[skippydiesel]

Well the SSB Power Sport XR Series, Battery Part No. RB16CL-B - I fitted August 2013, is still starting my Rotax 912 ULS very effectively. Cost back then $140.00

 

Cant say there have been any problems at all - I intermittently put the SSB on charge, using a CETEC multi stage charger (cant remember which one of the many models available). It goes through its stages - takes quite a while. I disconnect. Battery performs. I will remember to give the battery another "condition" the next time I dont fly for a month or so. I am happy!