New fuel laws

[facthunter]

 in answer to aro,   Past experience would indicate that is the case, and the system doesn't give you equal rights .. On one  case they hit the "victim" with more writs as he walked out of court, having won the case in point. "We have deeper Pockets than You". is the working model.. Nev

 

 

[Jaba-who]

 in answer to aro,   Past experience would indicate that is the case, and the system doesn't give you equal rights .. On one  case they hit the "victim" with more writs as he walked out of court, having won the case in point. "We have deeper Pockets than You". is the working model.. Nev

Yep we had a celebrated case here. 

Rescue helicopter under direction of ATC hovered close and then over a guys aircraft on ground at airport. 

 

Lot of damage to aircraft. 

 

Reasonably civil discussion about compensation - negotiations fell apart. Only option was to sue. As soon as he did CASA descended on him. Demanded his log books, fuel accounts, maintenance logs etc. 

 

They eventually found a date error in something going back several years and hit him with a fine for that. Then hit him for knock on errors because then the original error meant that at a later date his maintenance was delayed and for

 

some time  he was flying over the 100 hours. Each flight then was a contravention. Ended up the fines matched the payment he received

 

for the compensation. 

 

 

[Kenlsa]

I have to agree with jaba-who about trolling back through history to find fault.  I worked for a very large state organisation and if there was any complaint of any kind, both internal or external, your complete history, with notes and reports submitted and collected over many years were examined to verify any allegation of wrong doing. 

 

I have been both investigated and also conducted investigations on others so I know how this works.  I doubt that CASA would be any different to any other government organisation . Even electronic footprints are looked at, both business and private, just like IN THIS FORUM, where some of you may have left your antecedents electronically for anyone to read.

 

food for thought?

 

Ken

 

 

[Nick Sieczkowski]

This is the reply I received from Jill Bailey of RAAus."I understand the concerns of members and advise RAAus did provide a lengthy response to CASA when these changes were first proposed. We noted the 30 minute Mayday fuel requirement would be problematic for a number of RAAus aircraft which have minimal fuel carrying capacity.

 

Sadly, it appears this has not been sufficient to sway CASA and these new rules are proposed for implementation in November 2018.

 

Rest assured RAAus will be continuing to engage with CASA to achieve a more common sense approach. Keep an eye out on Sport Pilot and e-news information with updates."

 

I don't think Jill understands that the Mayday call was the real problem. I fail to see how having to carry 30 mins fuel reserve is a problem, given that most of us have been running on 45 min.  requirement.

https://www.raa.asn.au/our-organisation/events/article/?id=raaus-response-to-casa-fuel-minimums-proposal

 

Original RAAus response from 2016

 

 

[Yenn]

 

This says use Mayday when the aircraft requires immediate assistance. That to me says only use Mayday when it is logical, not at all times when you may only have 29 mins of fuel.

 

 

 

[djpacro]

That's the current AIP, it will have to change when the new law comes in later this year.

 

 

[apm]

[ATTACH]38440.IPB[/ATTACH]

How much assistance will be available or usefull if the call is not made until the fan stops.

 

Solution is simple, if you dont like or want to use this rule, carry more reserve. 

 

 

[turboplanner]

Now there's something I never heard off, a "fuel log"My daughter has an open fire and puts "fuel logs" on as they slowly burn away.

 

But On an aircraft, wood- burner is a newy to me. smacks of Echuca steam-boats.

 

But who knows whats around the corner !.

 

spacesailor

If recreational pilots had studied Performance and Operations and learned the very simple principles of calculating fuel burn in the climb, cruise and descent, and maintained the ten minute log on their flights, it's quite likely that the rash of fuel exhaustions and resulting spike in forced landings and crashes could have avoided this change.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

How much assistance will be available or usefull if the call is not made until the fan stops.

Solution is simple, if you dont like or want to use this rule, carry more reserve. 

That’s the old rule. 

From  8 November ( if you read the wording of the announcements - I haven’t been able to find an actual copy of the rule itself - just the CASA statements ) you call mayday when you calculate you’ll run into your reserve before you can land. ( not even when you hit your reserve - when you calculate it. So it could be theoretically hours before you reach your reserve) 

 

there is is no requirement to be in need of assistance or immediate danger. 

 

 

[Downunder]

I attended a CASA safety seminar a few days ago.

 

The casa presenter stated the call is made WHEN YOU HAVE CALCULATED the reserve is less than 30 mins at destination.

 

It is "mayday mayday fuel" call.

 

To me this contravenes ICAO definitions.You could be hours from your destination.

 

There is no IMMEDIATE threat to life. A pan-pan is totally appropriate, indicating I require assistance URGENTLY, to prevent the possibility of a mayday situation developing in the future.

 

Screen shot of icao def below.

 

 

 

[facthunter]

I always thought the Mayday was for a Grave and IMMINENT Danger. If you have hours to run before your fuel state is such as to be an "imminent" danger it's not the real situation for you YET!.. It is an anticipated lack of fuel reserve at a significant time in the future. To commence the flight without that particular reserve is illegal UNLESS you can plan to use a suitable alternate en route AND IF you don't save enough flight fuel to have a bit extra at the end of the flight to comply at your last divert point. you MUST divert to a place where you DO have the 30 minutes reserve.. The concept is "not operating with out required reserves". which the CASA want to eliminate or at least be advised of your situation in time to help or alert other aircraft and change arrival sequences. If you get a sudden change priority to land, another plane or planes must be held up, which might easily make them subject to this requirement, as a consequence...The more they know about your state the better they can manage the situation.. This isn't going to apply much to operations outside controlled airspace and where you are not in radio contact or making required/specific position reports. though the thought music of having enough fuel always should be to the fore.. Even if you are established on final how do you know someone won't get in your way and send you around? Nev