Midair Collision PA28 vs R22

[kgwilson]

Who is at fault here? From reports it appears the PA28 didn't make all radio calls but why was the RA22 hovering over the active runway with an instructor on board?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr7hAJmq5Pg&feature=youtu.be

 

 

[Jaba-who]

I read the numerous comments on one of the forums where this was displayed and could not believe the idiotic  and down-right anti-helicopter  vitriol that some armchair experts were expounding. 

 

The common completely wrong opinion was a belief  that helicopters are not allowed to use runways or they should stay away from runways. 

 

But it's exactly the opposite. 

 

Helicopters are aircraft and the basic ( American where this happened and also Australian) law is they can follow the patterns and use the runways just  as any other aircraft in the pattern. 

 

It's a common standard to use counterdirection circuits and If an airport chooses they can dictate alternate pathways but the termination point is Usually still the runway. They can choose to divert prior to the runway but at many airports the rules include approach and hover on the runway and they taxi off the runway. 

 

Some airports there is requirement to hover onto and depart off the runway. 

 

At this particular airport there is a fixed marked helicopter approach pad ( a big dotted circle ) IN THE MIDDLE OF THE RUNWAY. that was the approach point and that was the announced termination point and that was the legitimate place at THAT airport the helipcopter was supposed to be. In some of the images the helipad circle is visible. 

 

When you read the report it is clear the total fault was the fixed wing pilot. Several aircraft in the vicinity reported they heard the helicopter give all required calls. They also reported a single call which was distorted from the fixed wing who then departed the area and then returned without making any calls and who then when  he landed, unannounced, bounced and applied power and flew and climbed into the helicopter. 

 

The fixed wing pilot claimed he made calls, but neither the helicopter crew nor another fixed wing in the circuit heard him. He further stated that he heard radio sounds that sounded like rotor sounds with no detail.  Personally I suspect he was on the wrong frequency - perhaps one click off the correct frequency. This will, on some radios,  allow enough bleed over signal to be heard from adjacent frequencies but usually unintellible and the same result with transmitting his signal  to other stations. 

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Here's the google earth pic  airport and the site of the collision. As you can clearly see there is a f.....n great marked helipad there. 

 

 

 

[dsam]

Even without the radio issues, it makes me wonder why the fixed wing pilot never sighted the hovering helicopter?  Surely by short final it should have been obvious, and an early go-around should have been initiated?  FFS, I've sighted flocks of birds on the runway and done go-arounds... how hard would a helicopter be to see??

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Even without the radio issues, it makes me wonder why the fixed wing pilot never sighted the hovering helicopter? 

Garmin syndrone.

 

Staring at his bling, or possibly mobile phone.

 

Here's the google earth pic  airport and the site of the collision. As you can clearly see there is a f.....n great marked helipad there. 

Couldn't id be not on the runway? Seems to be plenty of areas where it could be, what would the consequences of that possibly be?

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Garmin syndrone.

Staring at his bling, or possibly mobile phone.

 

Couldn't id be not on the runway? Seems to be plenty of areas where it could be, what would the consequences of that possibly be?

As much as I reckon the fixed winger was in the wrong etc I wouldn't hold that against him.

You would be surprised how difficult it is to see another aircraft and a Robbie especially from 6 o'clock is even harder to see. When I was flying my R22 we used to do frequent trips in company with others and at some angles they can be impossible to see even when you know exactly where they are. 

 

Well it possibly could be but there are similar  limitations as fixed Wings about clearance from buildings, heights over obstructions in climb out and descent etc. 

 

Approach and departure pad has to give room for emergency manoeuvring, over and undershoots etc. Usually approach and departure points are out in the middle of the paddock and then supposed to taxi to landing pads nearer buildings etc. 

 

 

[biggles]

Even without the radio issues, it makes me wonder why the fixed wing pilot never sighted the hovering helicopter?  Surely by short final it should have been obvious, and an early go-around should have been initiated?  FFS, I've sighted flocks of birds on the runway and done go-arounds... how hard would a helicopter be to see??

              If you can't see a Ferris wheel on climb out, what hope have you got with an R22 ?........ Bob