Glide approach as standard practice

[facthunter]

That's fairly obvious I would have thought. If there's NO power, there's no choice. Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

 Skippy D,  there's some logic in that. If you ALWAYS check throttle forward fully ,carb heat OFF, It's NO problem.  Nev

 

 

[BirdDog]

Sounds good to me BD -Years ago I did a little bit of flying in Canada. As I was not familiar with The Okanagan Valley area, I elected to have an instructor go with me, with my two young sons in the back.

 

On returning for landing  and starting my decent, my young instructor basically ordered me to power up again and then use carbi heat befor reducing power. The carbi heat was maintained all the way down to touch-down.

 

We discussed this (new to me) technique in the club house. Canadians are paranoid (as you might expect) about ice formation, don't bother with assessing its likely hood, just assume it will happen.

 

We in Au get a bit blase about carbi ice and tend to only use heat on down wind, base  and close it on final.

 

I was taught to do this - the argument being that there is a power loss with turning on carbi heat that should be corrected befor touch down, in case of a go round.

 

When you think of it, the power reduction is minimal, compared with an ice choked carburettor, so why not keep the heat on, at least until on the ground.

 

I adopted the Canadian way - cheap insurance.

Yeah man!  My instructor was of a similar thinking.  He asked me once.... "So, do you think we should use Carb Heat?"   When I said I think the conditions might be right for ice, he said...  "They installed Carb Heat in this plane, so let's use it.  If we didn't need it, who cares"

 

We even practiced what it's like to go around with Carb Heat on and a full aircraft.  I could certainly feel it.  I had to lower my departure angle to gain speed etc.  Was good to understand the effects, and it proved it's worth not long after when I forgot to turn the Heat off and went around.  My first thought was...Hmmm... Why does she seem like she is struggling!  My mind went straight to Carb Heat, and low and behold, it was still on. 

 

I now have this process of verbalising "Yes, we will make it" and with that comes turning Carb Heat off.  Again, another technique that came out of my training, as my instructor would always ask me...  "Can we make it yet"  and I had to respond. 

 

 

[Birdseye]

On a trip to the EAA Oskosh show years ago, my mate wanted to get a US licence (he had a UK PPL) and log a N reg in his log book. First part was incredibly easy. We went off to a quiet airfield some miles distant from Oshkosh so that he could get his check ride. He took off and just like he did in the UK, climbed ahead to a safe height, turned crosswind and continued climb to 1000' agl. At that point the instructor somewhat sarcastically piped up, "I said fly a circuit, the cross country comes later".

 

Of the many circuits I've seen, a lot of aircraft wouldn't make the runway from mid downwind.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Yeah man!  My instructor was of a similar thinking.  He asked me once.... "So, do you think we should use Carb Heat?"   When I said I think the conditions might be right for ice, he said...  "They installed Carb Heat in this plane, so let's use it.  If we didn't need it, who cares"

We even practiced what it's like to go around with Carb Heat on and a full aircraft.  I could certainly feel it.  I had to lower my departure angle to gain speed etc.  Was good to understand the effects, and it proved it's worth not long after when I forgot to turn the Heat off and went around.  My first thought was...Hmmm... Why does she seem like she is struggling!  My mind went straight to Carb Heat, and low and behold, it was still on. 

 

I now have this process of verbalising "Yes, we will make it" and with that comes turning Carb Heat off.  Again, another technique that came out of my training, as my instructor would always ask me...  "Can we make it yet"  and I had to respond. 

 All good BD BUT imagine you are on late final, everything going just soooooper - carbi heat off - moments later wheels make that ppppuuurrfect contact - suddenly a beast (child/dog/cow/deer/roo/goat/ whatever) wonders across the strip - no where to go but up - power on - chuff! chuff!  carbi ice /no lift - BANG!

 

 

[BirdDog]

Yeah - I hear ya Skip.  I guess we can't equate for everything.  

 

I think from memory my manual and check lists states to turn it off on downwind.

 

 

[BirdDog]

On a trip to the EAA Oskosh show years ago, my mate wanted to get a US licence (he had a UK PPL) and log a N reg in his log book. First part was incredibly easy. We went off to a quiet airfield some miles distant from Oshkosh so that he could get his check ride. He took off and just like he did in the UK, climbed ahead to a safe height, turned crosswind and continued climb to 1000' agl. At that point the instructor somewhat sarcastically piped up, "I said fly a circuit, the cross country comes later".Of the many circuits I've seen, a lot of aircraft wouldn't make the runway from mid downwind.

WOW!  How could you not make the airfield from downwind!!  1000ft up - I could glide WAY past the field and end up on the dead side somewhere if need be!

 

 

[skippydiesel]

I think from memory my manual and check lists states to turn it off on downwind.

And that is just the way I was trained but when I was still in GA I made that little modification. Now my Rotax 912 motivated aircraft  does not boast carbi heat at all and after *8 years of ice free RAA economical flying - so far so good.

 

 

[BirdDog]

Yeah!  I did a lot of reading about my 912ULS and everything I read said that they don't often suffer ice because of how and where the carbs are mounted, but mine has it, so I use it.

 

Yes there is some talk about unfiltered air etc etc, but I would rather that than no go when I need it!

 

 

[johnm]

so that I can descend with power, and with Carb Heat

 

 

I dream of the day I can fly a plane ...................... with carb heat birddog                     (not all ultralights have carb heat)

 

 

[BirdDog]

Oh yes... I am happy that I have it - that's for sure.

 

 

[Yenn]

I always do any landing as if I had a power failure. Power off at base turn and I am annoyed with myself if I need to apply power. Carbie heat, I never use it, having flown over 1000 landings in my two planes and not needed it. If I was flying a C150 I would use heat every time I closed the throttle. Only because that is what the plane needs.

 

 

[M61A1]

WOW!  How could you not make the airfield from downwind!!  1000ft up - I could glide WAY past the field and end up on the dead side somewhere if need be!

I have seen a lot of circuits flown in such a fashion that they wouldn't make the runway from short final let alone base or downwind.

 

 

[KRviator]

Then you get the "fly-neighbourly" areas that frown upon you turning crosswind at 500AGL before the departure end of the airstrip and downwind just outside the boundary fence so you have to fly upwind a mile or so before turning crosswind... party-poopers.

 

 

[BirdDog]

I have seen a lot of circuits flown in such a fashion that they wouldn't make the runway from short final let alone base or downwind.

Yeah wow!!  I have come across a number of pilots where I have asked how much they "practice" and got the response - "never, really"   

 

Crazy I think!  But maybe thats because I am still sub 100 hours??  Maybe??

 

 

[M61A1]

But maybe thats because I am still sub 100 hours??  Maybe??

The two people I fly with most (not in the same aircraft....we all have our own) have thousands of hours but still practice glide approaches and are always out honing different skills.

 

 

[Birdseye]

WOW!  How could you not make the airfield from downwind!!  1000ft up - I could glide WAY past the field and end up on the dead side somewhere if need be!

I was talking about GA aircraft at a number of airfields here and outside OZ, some of those of which I was the tower controller. But that's  the sort of knowledge you only get from experience.

 

 

[alf jessup]

The more the headwind the earlier the turn for base, that’s my motto

 

 

[poteroo]

With most,(many), RAAus aircraft now having wing flaps, making a power-off glide approach is little different to what we were taught in the 60's.  The trick is to trim for a flapless glide, and only employ flaps when on final, and it's clear that you have altitude to lose. This then flows on to making an off-airport forced landing - where you may need to be able to make a steep final over obstacles. 

 

It seems that with many of our new, slicker RAAus types, the rate-of-descent is higher than you would initially anticipate. I believe that it is the drag of the 3 blade, ground-adjustable pitch propellor which is causing this. There is an RPM where the deceleration is quite clear cut - in our Brumby it's around 2900 RPM. For this reason, pilots should practise with idle thrust and nil flap because that's the very best glide that you'll achieve with engine out.

 

happy days,

 

 

[johnm]

Agree poteroo ...... no flaps till final..................then slip and / or flap 

 

Assuming some 'S' turns on final are still socially acceptable as well (if nothing following)

 

Equally you could be 10 miles from your strip cruising ar 1000 ft and all this - gliding - counts for naught

 

 

[M61A1]

Equally you could be 10 miles from your strip cruising ar 1000 ft and all this - gliding - counts for naught

Why would you be at 1000' with nothing to glide to?

 

 

[dsam]

My first solo (decades ago) was in a draggy 2 seat training glider, so my basic instincts are all about energy management, and a steep power off “glide” approach (with my 912ULS I’m not much worried about ice).  

 

I feel this steep angle “habit” is also an advantage especially at unfamiliar airports in case there is an unseen wire or obstacle on short final near the fence I didn’t know about.  

 

With full length flaperons and good sideslip capability, I can still dissipate all that excess altitude/energy effectively without a long floated touchdown, and remain well above obstacles near the threshold. 

 

 

[KRviator]

The only caveat I would offer, is if you make a glide approach your regular approach, and don't announce it as such, you may not be where someone is actually looking for you,  prompting them to think they have more time to get away than is really the case, ie, thinking you're still on base when you're rolling out on a 1/4 mile final.

 

 

[johnm]

Why would you be at 1000' with nothing to glide to?

'TO' being an airstrip ............. be rest assured gravity will take care of the rest

 

ou may not be where someone is actually looking for you

I think this is a factor of the conversation (where is that &!@@^% plane on finals)

 

 

[dsam]

Using the radio correctly (and strategically when necessary), along with strobe lights & landing lights, should help with “see and be seen” around aerodromes.  

 

Occasionally extending a circuit leg to accommodate others, or observing “fly neighbourly” circuits don’t necessarily preclude my steeper power-off glide on final.  As always, one needs to keep a sharp lookout especially around aerodromes, both landing and departing.