Latest on the F-35

[mnewbery]

Good. What makes it viable?

 

 

[Kiwi303]

It flies, currently mature technology.

 

Working off-boresight helmet launching, same system as the Typhoon.

 

Quoted RCS of 0.1 while worse than the quoted 0.05 to 0.01 (0.0001 I have seen I reckon is fanboi wishes, 0.01 seems from reputable sources) for the F-35 is better than the F18E/F at 1 or 2 or legacy hornet A/B/C/D at 4+ or F16 at 1.5+. Not stealth as such, but low observability.

 

Good radar, updated Blue Vixen derivative AESA similar to the more powerful Blue Vixen derivative Captor-E in the larger Typhoon. size simply allows more power.

 

Designed from the beginning with sensor integration, it may not have all the bells and whistles the Americans have loaded the F35 with, but if you can buy the sensor, the Gripen can network and run it. LINK 16 for NATO/US interoperability, faster more secure TARAS swedish system for internal comms. plus other networking systems... Pick what you need, not what LockMart want to sell you at markup.

 

Range, Gripen D quoted at 3250km with drop tanks, around 1600km on internal fuel, the E/F models have 40% more fuel but bigger engines, F35A CTOL at 2220km internal fuel (1200NM). This is the biggest difference, the Gripen is a european theater fighter. Shorter range with small countries. Australian use would generally require drop tanks as standard accessories.

 

 

[mnewbery]

Agree with all that. The original Gripen up to 1980 cost less than $5,000 per flight hour ... A bit more than half of the cost of the F-16. Current prices for the Gripen NG (with the all the goodies) are $116M per unit and $27,000 total cost per flying hour. I think they can use some of the same helmets too.

 

An F-35A is $116M plus the engine but minus the high level US interference for even considering an alternative and minus the issues around spares availability.

 

The Gripen will actually super cruise faster than the F-35.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

What is the defense scenario where we deploy F35s though?

 

 

[Kiwi303]

Pretty much limited to Indonesia deciding they want to grow Wheat instead of Rice. Anything else is better off dealt with by P3s/P8s loaded with Harpoons from just beyond ship mounted SAM range.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Why would indonesia want to invade us? Their gov can barely loot their own country, organising a war takes skill.

 

 

[Kiwi303]

Well you did ask Defense Scenario...

 

Pretty much Indonesia is the only one close enough to have any sort of real air to air combat with, everyone else is basically too far away to make land based fighter or bomber attacks effective.

 

And anyone with carriers are either too far away to make invading Australia worth their time (India , Russia, UK, China, France, Spain, Japan, etc) too small to worry much about but have a carrier for prestige purposes (Thailand, etc) or are so damn big that the RAAF would be better off doing an Iraq and donating their planes to the RNZAF like the Iraqi airforce did to Iran.

 

Most defensive scenarios would be served fine with Px loaded with antishipping missiles and whatever subs can put to sea.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Well, there is New Zealand...

 

I'd like to see a cost-benefit analysis. For the total cost of the F-35 package, what's going to save more Australian lives - the F-35, or putting the funding into the health care system? Hey perhaps we could properly fund the education system so that future leaders of this country are educated enough not to waste money on overpriced and unnecessary defense hardware.

 

But your statement that "you can't design one airframe... And expect it to have the same performance..." Is based on 80's thinking and knowledge of airframe design.

Thanks CB, I'm looking forward to your explanation of how the laws of physics have changed since the 80's.

 

And to say "once you have fired your smart missiles and the bad guy is still coming" shows little to no understanding of the networked and fully linked battlespace these aircraft will operate in.

Wow, I hope the bad guys got the memo about the new rules. It'd be terrible if they went and did something outside the parameters that the US government decided comprised the future of warfare...

[Bryon]

There is no need to invade Oz, just be like the chinese and buy up all the land

 

The Oz govt is too stupid to see what is happening.

 

 

[Himat]

A lot have been said here and elsewhere about the dogfight capabilities of the F-35. The biggest problem may show up first time the F-35 is fielded for ground attack against a reasonable capable and prepared foe. A shoot and scout air defence with low frequency and passive radars combined with IR tracking may detect, track and direct fire at the F-35 almost as effective as the current generation bombers are by older radars. If the air defence missiles have suitable seekers, maybe waypoint navigation the losses can get large. Throw in some fast firing medium and heavy artillery to and the air defence might wreck havoc among the bombers. The F-35 is not designed for going in low and fast, at medium altitude it may become easy an easy target.

 

 

[mnewbery]

Interoperability of IFF capability for coalition forces with regard to missiles (e.g. Hellfire, RBS 70 and its evolutions) and transponder equipped assets (ships, tanks and aircraft) is now brought into question due to the nature of the data transfer. The coalition platform was intended to use a cloud-based service.

 

Side not: IFF mode 5 requires encryption which one imagines means a shared key. It is this key that would be stored in the cloud.

 

Sharing secret F-35 data gives USAF new problem

 

 

[hihosland]

What went wrong with the F-35, Lockheed Martin's Joint Strike Fighter?

[kgwilson]

How many nails will it take. The "too big to fail" cry is wearing pretty thin these days as Lockheed continues to pour good money ( mostly from stupid governments) after bad. This thing is the biggest failure in military aviation history.

 

 

[mnewbery]

Australian Aviation article

 

The options that weren’t for the RAAF fighter fleet | Australian Aviation

 

Originally published in 2013

 

Speaking of the Typhoon and Rafale

 

But both jets are European, and as has been born out with the AIR 87 armed reconnaissance helicopter (ARH) experience, are encumbered by political and multi-national considerations, and their systems are not designed to seamlessly integrate with those forces of Australia’s principle ally in the region, the US

[bexrbetter]

So I am comfortable with that

comfortable with what, spending billions and billions developing weapons for mythical enemies, whom you need to either keep creating, such as poison a spy, or keep agrivating, or what the hell, attack a new country , hello Libya, while healthcare and education could be free for everybody at a fraction of that spending?

 

 

[mnewbery]

https://breakingdefense.com/2019/12/the-f-35-joint-strike-fighters-pretty-good-year/

 

 

 

The per aircraft price for the multi-role fighter is now $77.9 million, a cost that is “equal to or lower than a less capable 4th Generation legacy aircraft”