Microlights and RPT

[Cali]

Hi there.

 

Is there anyone here that flies out of a non controlled aerodrome where there are RPT flights on a daily base?

 

Cheers

 

Cali

 

 

[XC-Buzzard]

Hi there.Is there anyone here that flies out of a non controlled aerodrome where there are RPT flights on a daily base?

Cheers

 

Cali

Yes I do Cali, why do you ask ??

 

 

[Cali]

Hi there. I bought a hangar at Geraldton airport where I intend to fly from, but in the ERSA there is a note that all non-VH registered aircraft needs permission before landing. I emailed the airport manager to gain permission and was told “no, we deem microlights to be too much of a risk and we won’t allow them”.

 

I replied and asked what they see the risk as and if they could show me their risk assesment so I could help mitigate some of the “risks”.

 

The next reply was a bit more blunt, but still no, they are too much of a risk.

 

So this has been going back and forth between me and the City of Geraldton who owns and operates the airport and when I requested a meeting, I realised that the person behind the descision had a near miss 20 years ago ansd he is basing his professional oppinion on his personal experience, rather than facts.

 

I have aproached one of the councillors who is helping me go through the process of getting him to give me a formal response so I can prove him wrong, but it is taking forever and in the meantime my plane is sitting in my shed and I am not flying at all.

 

I have spoken to every other airport in WA where there is RPT flights and they all welcome microlights with open arms. They all agree that if you stick to the rules and you have propper radio calls, you are just another aircraft flying into an airport.

 

I have spoken to a lot of people in all diferent roles from CASA to airport managers to commercial pilots to charter companies and and and. And not one has a problem with microlights flying into Geraldton airport.

 

I just find it frustrating that one person with a bad taste in his mouth, can put the brakes on like this.

 

When I first asked the question, I was looking for advice and backup I guess.

 

Cheers

 

Cali

 

 

[facthunter]

Local Councils... The refuge of despots and sheltered workshop inhabiters and the best example of the failure of the democratic process( out side of the USA.). I'm happy to be proven wrong if you have factual evidence.. Nev

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Heard a similar story yesterday about a refused planning permit. Council brought in a facilitator and he immediately approved it and said he couldn’t understand the council officer's thinking.

 

 

[Cali]

There is no base to his claims and EVERYONE knows it, but still I can’t get permission.

 

It is a rate payers airport, but they don’t want rate payers to use it.....

 

I am working with a councillor now who is determined to help me, but it is taking forever to achieve anything. I am thinking of going to the local paper and telling them my story. Maybe if they ask him to put his opinnion on paper, it will become clear that it is his personal opinnion and not a professional one.

 

Beurocracy at it’s finest!

 

 

[fly_tornado]

local papers love a hard luck/ careless bureaucracy story

 

 

[Cali]

As it stands now, the council is taking a lot of flack for rate rises and perceived mismanagement of funds, so I am sure they don’t need any more negative news. I might just remind them that there is an easy and a hard way of getting things done :)

 

I don’t have any issues with anyone at the city or on the council, it is just one hard headed person in charge of making airport descisions who is the spanner in the works. Hopefully sanity will prevail.

 

 

[facthunter]

Of course they do. It fills papers, but will it help you with the council?. I reckon not. Can you talk to some tourism/local government person in Perth? There should also be some ombudsman to cover things like this. Nev

 

 

[XC-Buzzard]

As it stands now, the council is taking a lot of flack for rate rises and perceived mismanagement of funds, so I am sure they don’t need any more negative news. I might just remind them that there is an easy and a hard way of getting things done :)I don’t have any issues with anyone at the city or on the council, it is just one hard headed person in charge of making airport descisions who is the spanner in the works. Hopefully sanity will prevail.

Oh my goodness Cali, you'd think as a hanger owner and rate payer twice over , that would provide you with some rights of access to the Airport, no matter the aircraft you choose. Especially in non controlled airspace , RPT , Emergency aircraft , charter , commercial , or private n recreational Aviators are all created equal ..

 

 

[turboplanner]

On the other hand if some turkey has been flying 1000' circuits and getting on the way of Dash 8s there may be reason the next person is going to do the same.

 

 

[Downunder]

Get in touch with Nigel from the Bunbury council who is the airport officer for Bunbury Airport.

 

There are many microlights, gyro and RAA aircraft mixing with GA, RFDS, 2 Training schools (RAA/GA to commercial ), water bombers, DFES, and now a rescue helicopter base. There are also 3 x gyro instructors and one microlight training facility, all active with students No RPT but it can be a very busy airport.

 

All take due care and there have not been any incidences that I'm aware of......

 

Jeff, from airsportswa.com.au does microlight and gyro training.

 

Getting statements from some of the above may go along way to helping your cause...

 

good luck.

 

 

[Nobody]

Perhaps this it the kind of thing RAAus should be fighting for.

 

If they have any spare time after they are done registering trademarks....

 

 

[Cali]

Get in touch with Nigel from the Bunbury council who is the airport officer for Bunbury Airport.There are many microlights, gyro and RAA aircraft mixing with GA, RFDS, 2 Training schools (RAA/GA to commercial ), water bombers, DFES, and now a rescue helicopter base. There are also 3 x gyro instructors and one microlight training facility, all active with students No RPT but it can be a very busy airport.

All take due care and there have not been any incidences that I'm aware of......

 

Jeff, from airsportswa.com.au does microlight and gyro training.

 

Getting statements from some of the above may go along way to helping your cause...

 

good luck.

Thanks, I have been in touch wit the guys in Bunbury, got reference letters and offers of assistance from them (and everyone else I have been in touch with), but when I requested a meeting with the CEO, I prepeared my case and had a document with everything I could find that was relevant. Unfortunately, unbeknowst to me, the CEO was on holidays and guess who was filling in for him??? So the meeting got intercepted by the bloke with the bee in the bonnet and when I tried to hand him the document, he wouldn’t even look at it, but istead leaned forward and said “you will never fly a microlight out of the Geraldton airport”.

 

 

[Cali]

Perhaps this it the kind of thing RAAus should be fighting for.If they have any spare time after they are done registering trademarks....

I am with HGFA, but I am more than willing to move accross to RAAUS. A friend of mine has since bought a microlight and will be hangaring with me. He is with RAAUS.

 

Both organisations gave us their support.

 

Also spoke to Airborne who said they have never heard of something like this before.

 

 

[KRviator]

Easy solution. Fly PFL's and flapless approaches, etc, etc down to minimums. So long as you don't touch down, you haven't actually landed, so no PPR!

 

 

[turboplanner]

I am with HGFA, but I am more than willing to move accross to RAAUS. A friend of mine has since bought a microlight and will be hangaring with me. He is with RAAUS.Both organisations gave us their support.

Also spoke to Airborne who said they have never heard of something like this before.

Is the guy with the Mustang still there?

 

 

[slb]

also of note is that our Aircraft are deemed safe in the event of an engine failure, unlike GA and we are all taught to fly with that in mind. Might help in some small way especially if the HGFA could back that up for you in writing.

 

 

[Cali]

Easy solution. Fly PFL's and flapless approaches, etc, etc down to minimums. So long as you don't touch down, you haven't actually landed, so no PPR!

I have actually considered trailering my plane in, setting it up, taking off and landing on a farm strip and then trailer it back in.... The ERSA said permision is required prior to landing, it doesn’t say anything about taking off :)

 

 

[Cali]

also of note is that our Aircraft are deemed safe in the event of an engine failure, unlike GA and we are all taught to fly with that in mind. Might help in some small way especially if the HGFA could back that up for you in writing.

The sad part is, none of the facts, letters, statistics, CASA procedures etc. has any effect, because we aren’t having a two way conversation.

He flatly ignores the facts, but now I have to wait for the city to go through a process of rectifying this.

 

 

[Downunder]

Take it to the WA minister for local govt and perhaps the ombudsman is your next step I guess.

 

The main thing is to provide proof that microlights operate successfully across CTAF airports across Australia, Geraldton being the same class airport....

 

Do you have an "Airborne" trike? I think they are certified/factory built. An explanation of that may help too.

 

Perhaps a letter from Airborne ( an Aussie company) as to build quality and safety record.

 

 

[Blueadventures]

Get in touch with Nigel from the Bunbury council who is the airport officer for Bunbury Airport.There are many microlights, gyro and RAA aircraft mixing with GA, RFDS, 2 Training schools (RAA/GA to commercial ), water bombers, DFES, and now a rescue helicopter base. There are also 3 x gyro instructors and one microlight training facility, all active with students No RPT but it can be a very busy airport.

All take due care and there have not been any incidences that I'm aware of......

 

Jeff, from airsportswa.com.au does microlight and gyro training.

 

Getting statements from some of the above may go along way to helping your cause...

 

good luck.

Also maybe add in the fact that RAA is moving to 760 kg and heavier; and that many current GA types that are allowed now will in fact be RAA registered in the very near future. May be another bit of usefull facts to help you get across the line.

 

 

[Yenn]

Why not get the local paper on side. Stir up as much trouble as you can for the one person who cannot see sense.

 

 

[Soleair]

To answer your original question, until recently I flew regularly from Mudgee airport in NSW. There is a twice daily RPT operating from there to Sydney, and Mudgee Aero Club members fly mainly ultralights. My own aircraft is a 95.10 MiniMax, & I have made radio contact with RPT pilot a couple of times ensuring separation, etc, with no problems. I hope this helps in your mission against the little man with a big hat.

 

Bruce

 

 

[Downunder]

Why not get the local paper on side. Stir up as much trouble as you can for the one person who cannot see sense.

Be careful, that can swing the other way and they dig in more....