DreamWorld and the importance of training records.

[M61A1]

[ATTACH=full]61134[/ATTACH]The mining industry serious claims rate has been falling for a long time, the safety systems seem to be working.

Have they measured the extent that automation has been involved and factored that into their figures?

 

 

[M61A1]

Hmmmm facts versus a deeply held conviction. That's a tough one all right.

Even you know that statistical "facts" can be very rubbery depending on many variables.

 

 

[old man emu]

My thread. My drift.

 

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Have they measured the extent that automation has been involved and factored that into their figures?

It is a rate per 1000 so unaffected by automation replacing people, but automation may have removed some more hazardous jobs, which is part of the overall safety approach.

 

 

[turboplanner]

It is a rate per 1000 so unaffected by automation replacing people, but automation may have removed some more hazardous jobs, which is part of the overall safety approach.

Automation, Robotics, change-of-process are all ways to reduce injury, if you no longer need to cut a product, you'll no longer have people cutting their fingers off.

 

 

[M61A1]

It is a rate per 1000 so unaffected by automation replacing people, but automation may have removed some more hazardous jobs, which is part of the overall safety approach.

So... No then.

 

 

[facthunter]

The rate per person is a good copmaro , IF the situation is otherwise similar( Apples with apples.) Automation removes the person from risk by physically not having them close to the hazardous areas they were previously required to be. RSI and things like hearing loss , silicon dust. glass fibres molten lead fumes, welding flashes etc are not being relevant in the workplace environment. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

All of those things play a part in the reduction of injuries in the workplace; most are introduced by the company as part of its quest to reduce injuries.

 

For the same reasons the specification changes in cars have eliminated old causes of fatality like having the chest crushed by the steering column acting as a pole.- no pole, no chest crush.

 

 

[M61A1]

Agreed that such things reduce injury and deaths, but it doesn't tell the story about how effective OH&S regulation is. Automating someone's job doesn't tell how much protection they got from their hardhat or safety vest, or how effective documenting training is. The documentation is there for one reason and it has nothing to do with safety.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Agreed that such things reduce injury and deaths, but it doesn't tell the story about how effective OH&S regulation is. Automating someone's job doesn't tell how much protection they got from their hardhat or safety vest, or how effective documenting training is. The documentation is there for one reason and it has nothing to do with safety.

It is relevant because it means the hard hatted person isn’t there anymore, and either transfers to a safer area, or in some cases to a safer sunrise area.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Even you know that statistical "facts" can be very rubbery depending on many variables.

Deeply held beliefs don't actually need facts, they can also ignore contrary facts. hmm that's a tough one.

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

[ATTACH=full]61134[/ATTACH]The mining industry serious claims rate has been falling for a long time, the safety systems seem to be working.

That is fascinating. Safety has been improving, even this century, never mind what happened in late 20th century. Also, mining looks about as safe as the average of other industries, which is huge, IMHO.

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

My thread. My drift.[ATTACH=full]61135[/ATTACH]

 

That's what that website thinks of the first paragraph of Ernest Hemingway's book, A Farewell to Arms! But I do agree with the audit of what I wrote.

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

 

The app seems to have a dislike of long sentences. It is fashionable to write in short sentences, and I try to. But good authors make long sentences work, adding richness and precision. I believe that the sentence above is actually easy to read, even if it is not worthy of a great author, or any sort of author. What do you think? I actually like it as a sentence, FIGJAM!

 

 

[old man emu]

Here's another opening in the safety industry for a savvy chappy.

 

I was surfing for stuff related to the current recall of some frozen vegetable products and came across this from the Food Authority of NSW

 

The Food Authority has prepared the Guidelines for food service to vulnerable persons to help industry prepare a food safety program that will comply with the NSW Food Regulation 2015.

 

 

 

The guideline explains the mandatory requirements detailed in current food legislation, which are listed as a must. These include the requirement to be licensed, implement a food safety program and comply with the Food Standards Code.

 

 

 

In addition, the guideline details the elements of a food safety program that will be looked at and assessed by the Food Authority during certification and audit, and provides suggested control measures to demonstrate compliance. These are listed as a should.

 

http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/_Documents/industry/guidelines_vulnerable_persons.pdf

 

White coats and clipboards to the 'Ready'!

 

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

[ATTACH=full]61137[/ATTACH]The app seems to have a dislike of long sentences. It is fashionable to write in short sentences, and I try to. But good authors make long sentences work, adding richness and precision. I believe that the sentence above is actually easy to read, even if it is not worthy of a great author, or any sort of author. What do you think? I actually like it as a sentence, FIGJAM!

The greats, from Brubeck to Picasso, Hemmingway to Blanchett, are allowed to break the rules; but first they must learn them and master their field of activity.

Meanwhile, the rest of us should stick to the rules.

 

 

[turboplanner]

The greats, from Brubeck to Picasso, Hemmingway to Blanchett, are allowed to break the rules; but first they must learn them and master their field of activity.Meanwhile, the rest of us should stick to the rules.

Nothing of the sort; who said the person who wrote the App had any writing skills?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I didn't.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Here's another opening in the safety industry for a savvy chappy.I was surfing for stuff related to the current recall of some frozen vegetable products and came across this from the Food Authority of NSW

The Food Authority has prepared the Guidelines for food service to vulnerable persons to help industry prepare a food safety program that will comply with the NSW Food Regulation 2015.

 

The guideline explains the mandatory requirements detailed in current food legislation, which are listed as a must. These include the requirement to be licensed, implement a food safety program and comply with the Food Standards Code.

 

In addition, the guideline details the elements of a food safety program that will be looked at and assessed by the Food Authority during certification and audit, and provides suggested control measures to demonstrate compliance. These are listed as a should.

 

http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/_Documents/industry/guidelines_vulnerable_persons.pdf

 

White coats and clipboards to the 'Ready'!

 

I think this is just the opposite; over the past few years you had to pay to go to an institution to get a Certificate for food handling.

For volunteers, this was an unwelcome expense. I haven't seen what the improvement has been from the start of food handling training, when 40,000 people a year were hospitalised from food poisoning (with a similar percentage in the US), but my perception is there has been a huge improvement.

 

This appears to be a volunteer sector, where the people involved can train themselves up to a required standard.

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

Have they measured the extent that automation has been involved and factored that into their figures?

The rates were per 1000 workers so they probably did include drops due to automation, but not include job losses due to automation. The figures included the mining boom period, so they would have had increasing staff numbers for that period anyway.

 

Automation is a perfectly valid way to decrease injuries.

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

Agreed that such things reduce injury and deaths, but it doesn't tell the story about how effective OH&S regulation is. Automating someone's job doesn't tell how much protection they got from their hardhat or safety vest, or how effective documenting training is. The documentation is there for one reason and it has nothing to do with safety.

Automation is a *much* better way of achieving safety than hard hats and vests.

 

The hierarchy of controls (as stated in Wikipedia) is as follows

 

• Elimination
   
   
  
• Substitution
   
   
  
• Engineering controls
   
   
  
• Administrative controls
   
   
  
• Personal protective equipment
   
   
  

 

 

Automation would count as elimination or as an engineering control, depending on the degree of automation. Automation is a very good method of making people safer. Hard hats and vests are personal protective equipment (PPE), the lowest form of maintaining safety. So, no, the figures do not say if the decrease in serious accidents was due to automation or PPE, but who really cares? The more it was due to automation and the less it was due to PPE the better.

 

As for documentation is for one reason and it not being safe, that cannot be literally true. The miners avoided more and more actual accidents to actual workers and the safety documentation was part of it. That does not mean that the documentation that *you* saw was useful, just that the overall documentation was part of a system that actually worked. If you equate safety with hard hats and hi vis vests, then that might be part of the problem.

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

The greats, from Brubeck to Picasso, Hemmingway to Blanchett, are allowed to break the rules; but first they must learn them and master their field of activity.Meanwhile, the rest of us should stick to the rules.

Hemmingway did not break the rules. If he did break the rules, his books would be respected but people would not enjoy going to the effort of reading them.

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

I think this is just the opposite; over the past few years you had to pay to go to an institution to get a Certificate for food handling.For volunteers, this was an unwelcome expense. I haven't seen what the improvement has been from the start of food handling training, when 40,000 people a year were hospitalised from food poisoning (with a similar percentage in the US), but my perception is there has been a huge improvement.

This appears to be a volunteer sector, where the people involved can train themselves up to a required standard.

I think OME was complaining about the wording, not complaining about the training.

 

 

[old man emu]

I think OME was complaining about the wording, not complaining about the training.

No I wasn't. I was pointing out that here was another opportunity for people to gain employment by developing food safety management systems; flogging them to organisations that according to legislation require them, then come back and do the required auditing.

 

If you have aged relatives in care, or if you think that you might end up in care, then this is one area where Big Brother is on your side. Don't forget that aged care facilities are businesses, run for maximum profit, and not for giving loving, high quality care to their clients.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Hemmingway did not break the rules. If he did break the rules, his books would be respected but people would not enjoy going to the effort of reading them.

When I was in school we studied precis, where we would start with a verbose statement, then prune the words, still leaving the essence, then prune that, until we had the minimum words required to communicate the meaning of the original statement.

A also studied Hemingway's Old Man and the Sea for a whole year in English; you could precis that book down to: "An old fisherman wanted to catch one more big fish; he caught it".