considering training

[ThirstyDursty]

Hi new here

 

Always wanted to learn to fly. We are pretty well off now. So thought it was maybe time.

 

But still deciding if I can afford it. no one can...but they do.

 

Any insight into costs...especially ongoings is what I’m after. Then I will probably commit to training. Obviously many recreational flyers don’t own...but rent...so multiple participation models.

 

My interest is family (5 of us) travel to remote areas and Ariel photography as well.

 

Training seems to be about $10k

 

A Cessna 206 ~$150k-500k

 

Not sure insurance, or other running and hangering costs or landing fees etc.

 

Just interested and trying to do my homework.

 

$20k a year? For 100hours?

 

Maybe I need to sit down with a pilot ‍✈️

 

 

[Nightmare]

Hi and welcome

 

RA Aus training to get my Recreational Pilot Certificate (RPC), cost me around $10000 with X-Country endorsement. It was about $200 per hour, but you can expect from $200 to $250/hr as the norm. Lessons were generally 1 hour each. I did them at the rate of 1 lesson every week or fortnight as funds permitted.

 

To upgrade to the CASA Recreational Pilot License (RPL), to fly the larger aircraft, would require some more training, a flight test and maybe some more familiarization in the larger aircraft, plus a class 1 or 2 medical at the very least. The benefit of going RPC then RPL would be significantly lower costs for the bulk of the training, ie the hire rates for the smaller aircraft.

 

I own a 2 seat Jabiru LSA 55, which I purchased for just under $30K.

 

My fixed costs work out at around $175 per fortnight, which includes insurance, hanger fees, rego, licence fees, and any other costs that I will have to pay whether I fly her or not.

 

Then my running costs are about $50 per hour of flight time, which includes servicing costs, prop replacement, engine overhaul or replacement costs, and any other costs associated with flying the plane.

 

Then I have my fuel costs, which are under $30 per hour, I have a fuel burn of about 12L/hr.

 

You're looking at a larger aircraft so I'm thinking the costs could be somewhat higher.

 

 

[ThirstyDursty]

Hi and welcomeRA Aus training to get my Recreational Pilot Certificate (RPC), cost me around $10000 with X-Country endorsement. It was about $200 per hour, but you can expect from $200 to $250/hr as the norm. Lessons were generally 1 hour each. I did them at the rate of 1 lesson every week or fortnight as funds permitted.

 

To upgrade to the CASA Recreational Pilot License (RPL), to fly the larger aircraft, would require some more training, a flight test and maybe some more familiarization in the larger aircraft, plus a class 1 or 2 medical at the very least. The benefit of going RPC then RPL would be significantly lower costs for the bulk of the training, ie the hire rates for the smaller aircraft.

 

I own a 2 seat Jabiru LSA 55, which I purchased for just under $30K.

 

My fixed costs work out at around $175 per fortnight, which includes insurance, hanger fees, rego, licence fees, and any other costs that I will have to pay whether I fly her or not.

 

Then my running costs are about $50 per hour of flight time, which includes servicing costs, prop replacement, engine overhaul or replacement costs, and any other costs associated with flying the plane.

 

Then I have my fuel costs, which are under $30 per hour, I have a fuel burn of about 12L/hr.

 

You're looking at a larger aircraft so I'm thinking the costs could be somewhat higher.

Awesome thank you. Thanks for the tip re: RPC to RPL. Cost is one factor...what about time? Would it be significantly faster to just go straight to RPL? Or do you get 1:1 recognition/overlap of content...that you just do the gap at the end? I guess one benefit of doing straight RPL might be more hours in an aircraft similar/class to what you plan to operate? Not sure if that impacts insurance...although I’m sure all new pilots are paying through nose for insurance...till hours are way up

 

Good insights. Nothing scary there. I’m well aware this is a money pit about passion.

 

 

[Downunder]

Be aware RPC (RAA certificate) is 2 pob only and day vfr flying only. No controlled airport access (C &D class).

 

MTOW under 600kg. Owner maint is alowed in most cases.

 

There is a whole range of aircraft made for this category.

 

If you are looking at larger aircraft with 4 of 5 people then costs will blow out significantly.

 

RPL or PPL with medical requiements......

 

 

[facthunter]

If you have 5 people you need the right sized plane. A 6 seater may not be able to carry 5 with Stuff you may want to carry.. The sort of plane you need will be capable of earing money, so if it's cheap it will be a liability with work pending and perhaps big dollars needed and it's an unknown figure. You can do it all on a private licence. Get a PIFR on the minimum instruments for your work.. 206 or similar is probably the best but they could be pretty tired. I'm not familiar with the payload in detail .Hi wing is best air to ground photos. You could easily spend $150K on repairs which might be the same as purchase cost... Nev

 

 

[Nightmare]

Awesome thank you. Thanks for the tip re: RPC to RPL. Cost is one factor...what about time? Would it be significantly faster to just go straight to RPL? Or do you get 1:1 recognition/overlap of content...that you just do the gap at the end? I guess one benefit of doing straight RPL might be more hours in an aircraft similar/class to what you plan to operate? Not sure if that impacts insurance...although I’m sure all new pilots are paying through nose for insurance...till hours are way upGood insights. Nothing scary there. I’m well aware this is a money pit about passion.

I know that the average hourly rate for flight training is significally lower going RPC, and yes, when you go to upgrade, you would probably need to do approximately 5 hours on the more expensive and bigger aircraft for familiarization and the flight test. But if you did the 30 or so hours at the cheeper rate (RPC), and your XC endorsement, and any other endorsements done through RAAus, it all crosses over when you get your RPL. So yes, I say it's well worth investigating this path as a more cost effective way to achieve your goals.

[Nightmare]

Also, as far as the costs go, be aware that the fuel burn of a C206, according to trusty Google is between 50-72L/hr, which is significantly higher than my little plane's 12L/hr fuel burn. So if the costs of fuel are at least 5 times higher, you can expect other costs to be similarly proportionally higher.

 

It may be worth visiting a local airport/airfield and seeing if you can talk with a C206 owner, if you can't get to chat with one on here.

 

You could consider joining a syndicate where you'd share the costs, with other pilots.

 

 

[facthunter]

When you factor in speed and load the fuel flow figure is not so bad. They are popular for a good reason. They lift things out of outback places well. In their category there's probably nothing better. When you want to carry 5 there's not a lot to choose from in singles (pistons). It's better than my Citabria which did 92 knots @ 25 l /hr with 2 people ..Nev

 

 

[Nightmare]

When you factor in speed and load the fuel flow figure is not so bad. They are popular for a good reason. They lift things out of outback places well. In their category there's probably nothing better. When you want to carry 5 there's not a lot to choose from in singles (pistons). It's better than my Citabria which did 92 knots @ 25 l /hr with 2 people ..Nev

You are right Nev, it's just the economics that I was commenting on, and of course this can be offset in a syndicate situation. And of course, everybody's financial situation is different. I would love a C206, but alas, mine doesn't allow me to at this point.... There is Lotto I guess

[facthunter]

I buy the ODD ticket "Hoping". You have to be in it to win it.. Nev

 

 

[Tigershark21]

Do some flying before you decide what you prefer. Do some RAAus training up till solo in order to achieve it for the cheapest cost $$$.

 

After ten or so hours decide what type of flying you'd like to do one day. Local or Xcountry? Passenger or alone? Career even?

 

It's hard to decide what you'll actually end up doing until you've gotten the exposure. Purchase or syndicate? -I'd own something small and just hire the big one when you need it?

 

I'm guessing your asking for opinions. Here's mine. Although people say that single seaters aren't economically viable and cost 5/6 of a two seater to build anyway;

 

But I find them much more fun. ...Yen would be having an absolute ball in that Corby Starlet.

 

Properly equipped, single seaters perform much better in all respects. Nimble, faster and responsive, less weight, smaller engine choices and less cockpits to furnish (1/6th). (Read Kit_Planes Magazine July 2018, article pg. 2).

 

What I realized is that despite having more fun in single seaters, I flew alone 99% of the time anyway whilst gaining hours towards an RPL, PPL after gaining a RPC.

 

Do the Xcountry, flight radio for VFR, controlled aero and airspace endorsements, BAK and Human Factors exam for your RPL whilst training at a controlled aerodrome and undergoing dual time with a GA instructor in a C-152 or something else for the required hours, training and check flight. Get an ASIC and Class 1 or 2 medical.

 

Own/build a single or two seater to keep your hours up because you need to afford not just to fly, but fly regularly. That's important! Register it VH experimental (once only rego payment) and join the SAAA and do a self-maintenance course and fly up to 1500kg if you want to go down that route.

 

When you need something with several seats, simply hire a suitable plane for the odd occasion when five people come flying with you rather than owning one. Owning a big bus isn't viable if it spends more time in the hangar not getting used. Remember that Certified vs Experimental aircraft can also make a HUGE price difference in maintenance. eg) TSO'd avionics for certified aircraft is astronomical in costs and servicing. Buy something that you WILL use weekly. :) :)