Reverse tricycle.

[Deskpilot]

Just a question out of the blue. Does a reverse tricycle under carriage require the pilot to have a tail dragger certificate/license? Not saying why the question is relevant

 

 

[Kiwi]

Like this?

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Interesting question.

 

And if not; how far back on a fuselage would you have to go before the requirement kicks in?

 

 

[Jaba-who]

[Marty_d]

I don't understand why you'd do it. Normal tricycle puts the main gear in the right spot for landing at stall AoA. So does normal taildragger. What possible benefit would reverse tricycle give you?

 

 

[eightyknots]

I don't understand why you'd do it. Normal tricycle puts the main gear in the right spot for landing at stall AoA. So does normal taildragger. What possible benefit would reverse tricycle give you?

It seems to me you would get the worst of Both worlds

 

 

[Thruster88]

I see two unusual tail wheel aircraft, don't think you would slam them down on the rear wheel.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Like this? [ATTACH=full]61272[/ATTACH]

If you look carefully is has a slat/flap/aileron arrangement which looks as if it increases the angle of attack substantially, and the tail wheel is quite a bit higher than the mains.

I'd suggest this was someone's idea for low level surveillance, flying and landing nose down on the mains, and settling on the rear wheel later, which gave the aircraft stable crosswind solo taxying on battlefield landing sites. Based on the configuration dying out, it probably wasn't a success. Around that time the USAF tried many weird designs, including a vertical take off fighter that sat on the ground, like a rocket, on four tiny wheels. Just imaging what it would be like stopping a big fighter in mid air, getting it to drop tail low, then reversing in a downwards curve on to a landing pad.

 

 

[red750]

Another photo of the Meta Sokol, a Czechoslovakian aircraft of the late 1950's.

 

 

 

[David 95]

It depends if the mains are forward or aft of the c/g, If they are forward of the C/G then it is still a tail dragger.

 

The idea of moving the tail wheel forward is to give the rudder more leverage over it and hopefully be more controllable. pretty much as Red said.I Have my doubts as too how effective it is.

 

 

[facthunter]

The issue is IF the mainwheels are ahead of the centre of gravity. The tailwheel (or nosewheel) determines the pitch it sits at and may be actively steerable or castering. Any time any wheel ahead of the Cof G is carrying the majority of the mass of the plane it's directionally unstable. In both designs the Mains are built much stronger as they are designed to carry the bulk of the forces, and should be flown in accordance with that principle. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Looking at the Meta Sokol picture I reckon the mains must be ahead of the C of G. Otherwise It would sit in a funny configuration.

 

 

[Thruster88]

You are onto somthing there Yenn, five on the aus register hope they are all still flying.

 

 

[Downunder]

If the mains were BEHIND the CofG wouldn't the prop be ploughing fields?

 

 

[facthunter]

It DOES when the nosewheel breaks. Nev

 

 

[kasper]

Not unsurprising the kit built tailwheel Europa that had the “tailwheel” up under the fuselage had a very popular modification to have a tailwheel down at the end.

 

I’ve three lovely cast tailwheel yokes and wheels from ones I worked on the convertion of

 

 

[facthunter]

Having it at the rear is simpler in many ways and can be less substantial to do the same job.. If you want to retract it, coming forward is almost a necessity.. I've flown a Sokol and they are not so different but you were told to not abuse the tailwheel. It's still a real taildragger in principle, except the geometry prevents a real nose high landing. With effective flaps this is unnecessary anyhow. Steer with the tailwheel? Yes for sure. Set it up to work properly .That's why you keep the stick right back after landing, to keep the weight on it especially on planes with an undersized or shielded rudder.( Not when taxiing downwind though). Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

It seems to me you would get the worst of Both worlds

As with putting a sidecar on a motorcycle...

 

 

[facthunter]

I would rather ride a good sidecar outfit than a trike . If you haven't done it you only speculate. . It does need a lot more power, have the right adjustment s and frame attach points, a strong enough frame for the bike and not have too high a centre of gravity. Nev..

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I would rather ride a good sidecar outfit than a trike . If you haven't done it you only speculate. . It does need a lot more power, have the right adjustment s and frame attach points, a strong enough frame for the bike and not have too high a centre of gravity. Nev..

I've (briefly) ridden two, and somehow survived. Not my idea of good transport design.

 

 

[facthunter]

It takes a while to get confidence and the skill. to handle a sidecar. If someone briefly tried a tailwheel and didn't like it would you see them as competent to judge?. it probably takes about 60 hours at least to get good with a tailwheel plane. even though they used to solo in eight.. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

You have a point Nev, but if I'm to be out there in the elements I want to be able to lean the bike.

 

 

[facthunter]

Means you must have curved section tires and less rubber area on the road when you are cornering.. Pillion riders have to be taught to lean with the bike as they are obviously uncomfortable with the new sensation (for them)

 

.Anyhow back to tailwheels. a configuration that probably only a minority of "modern" pilots will ever fly.

 

Makes me recall a pilot who had never flown anything but a jet who wanted to fly a DH 82. with no brakes and a tailskid., with ME training him. As you probably know jet engines have no twisting flow so no rudder is needed unless an engine fails in a multi engine one. Bit how some people fly a C-172. The pedals are there to rest your feet on. and steer it on the ground. Nev

 

 

[mnewbery]

This one is for @fly_tornado.

 

Reverse tricycle? Tick!

Engine based on Snow Mobile? Probably

Found all over Europe? Tick!

Trailerable? Tick!

 

Can-Am Spyder F3-P 3-Wheel Police Motorcycle

[facthunter]

3 of those marshalled on recent rally I participated in.. Nicely made but I wonder what you do when you "lose" one . You can drop a bike and stay behind it.. Nev