Asbestos exposure

[APenNameAndThatA]

Has there been any long term effects from fibreglass?The fibres are not microscopic.

That was me being wrong. Asbestos fibres are way smaller than fibreglass and other particles. According to Google, asbestos fibres are about the same diameter as bacteria and smog.

 

 

[Methusala]

It's said that asbestos fibres can divide to diameters that are small enough to penetrate the wall of the cell's nucleus and physically damage genetic material. I knew a guy who was employed cutting asbestos water pipes with a 9" B&D saw in the late 50's. Died a pretty horrible death 30 years later. As a young plumber, I would make circular penetrations in the soffit lining for vent pipes using dividers. Dust would float all around me. Have heard that mesothelioma only gets a small percentage of those exposed. I know that exposure to dust in the construction industry has scarred my lungs but I'm lucky so far at 67.

 

 

[old man emu]

It has to be small enough to get into your lungs. Particulate Matter that can do this and cause cancer appears to start at 10 microns which can travel through the air for about 50 km.

Oh! particulate matter 10 microns in diameter? I wonder if that is reported as the Air Quality Index (PM10)?

 

It's a crime to make a rhyme with grime.

 

 

[facthunter]

IF you have time it's not a crime to make a rhyme with grime.. Nev

 

 

[bexrbetter]

IF you have time it's not a crime to make a rhyme with grime.. Nev

[pmccarthy]

You have to make jokes asbestos you are able.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

IF you have time it's not a crime to make a rhyme with grime.. Nev

The crime is grime rhymes too many times, better become mimes.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

food for thought @M61A1

[Downunder]

In some respects wealthy businessmen are no different to the mafia.

 

Instead of baseball bats, it's wine and dine for........ "leverage".

 

No doubt Trump wanted to build something from asbestos related materials or was trying to avoid liability from already having done so....

 

 

[Jethro Belle]

Good morning all survivors

 

All of the quotes included below concur with my experience, first starting work on thermal power stations that Greens love to hate. Asbestos (thermal insulation) fights in the enclosed spaces above boilers were the norm before I started. It convinced me that exposure does not automatically = mesothelioma even at high levels (Good for me and everyone with exposure). Asbestos is not toxic chemically. My understanding is it causes irritated inflamed sites that are more prone to cancer. I haven't seen a paper on it, but I confident that smoking (or similar) provides the carcinogenic trigger.

 

I observed a sandblaster (not slurry) recently working with no respiratory filtration, then go out for a fag:yikes:. His cough suggested he was not long for this world, poor soul. Would have reminded him, but he seemed like the type that would not respond well to safety advice. Yes this case is silicosis (silica is not toxic either), but the link to smoking was there and I believe the mechanism is very similar. Silica shards cut the lungs, regrowing tissue is mutated by smoke carcinogens.

 

Bottom line is getting anything into your lungs except air isn't good, especially smoke. Asbestos (blue asbestos, more than white) is bad because it is so fine it floats into the lungs and being so fine I suspect the body's usual way of expelling foreign bodies like splinters and bullets does not work so well.

 

If you haven't smoked and are still alive I reckon your chances are good

 

Just my 2c worth.

 

My father in law used to have asbestos fights and never had a problem, others sniff one fibre and it's all over.

 

I worked with it and used to go home looking like Father Christmas. That was in the sixties and no problems so far.

 

In our industry smokers seemed most at risk.

 

My employer used to employ Laggers to insulate high temperature steam pipes. They used to lay back amongst it and eat their lunch . All died at a very young age......

 

My grandfather took a job in a facility that laundered overalls from an asbestos mine. After working there for 6 years he was diagnosed with lung cancer and died a pretty miserable death. He was also a smoker as was quite common amongst his peers.

[fly_tornado]

People are dying from believing the mob's lies?

 

 

[M61A1]

food for thought @M61A1

What’s your point? I don’ Think anyone could argue that it’s safe to inhale asbestos, but it wouldn’t be a stretch for the mob to have an asbestos removal racket.

[fly_tornado]

are the mob are overstating the threat of PFAS to force the cleanup?

 

 

[turboplanner]

are the mob are overstating the threat of PFAS to force the cleanup?

If this is really of any interest to you, go to the USEPA website and you'll be able to find out for yourself; I've found over the years that they are one of the most conscientious and thorough public bodies in the world. It's not always easy to get the definitive and compelling data, but it's always there.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Only Trump will stand up to the EPA

 

EPA is now allowing asbestos back into manufacturing

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Russians love Trump

[turboplanner]

Only Trump will stand up to the EPAEPA is now allowing asbestos back into manufacturing

I can understand the need to explain the changing legal era 30 times to some people, but I thought you would pick up on it. It’s no longer possible to sue USEPA over asbestos, and apparently other airborne materials. The victims now go straight to the perps, which is a quicker and more cost effective way of wiping them out. Previously offenders could tie EPA up in the courts arguing that EPA figures were wrong/unfair etc

 

 

[fly_tornado]

there is a whole supply chain that will get infected with asbestos now, seems like a backwards step tbh

 

 

[Jethro Belle]

are the mob are overstating the threat of PFAS to force the cleanup?

PFAS Health Effects . What has PFAS got to do with Asbestosis discussion?

 

Everyone should go flying and have some fun Forget death and politics for a while! As you get older, statistically you will live longer

 

 

[turboplanner]

Just forgetting PFAS for the moment, USEPA changes mean that US manufacturers can reintroduce asbestos, but any medical issues become their responsibility. That could lead to something as simple as encapsulated asbestos heat shields, lowering costs and posing no risk to the community.

 

 

[M61A1]

What has PFAS got to do with Asbestosis discussion?

Absolutely nothing...It's just trolling.

Nothing new.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

both found in abundance at most airports?

 

 

[Jethro Belle]

Just forgetting PFAS for the moment, USEPA changes mean that US manufacturers can reintroduce asbestos, but any medical issues become their responsibility. That could lead to something as simple as encapsulated asbestos heat shields, lowering costs and posing no risk to the community.

As an Engineer I agree entirely. Performance of most things containing Asbestos fibres took a dive after it was banned. Gaskets, brakes, heat shielding all were technically inferior afterwards.

 

As an engineer that has to operate in the real world, I have little faith in International corporations repatriating encapsulated asbestos heat shields when their encapsulation starts to fail Lawyers haven't clarified the risk of asbestos in the many mesothelioma cases. Some companies/accountants would prefer to dump than pay the cost of safe disposal. Probably unethical contractors, CEOs, engineers and... and ... and others who make decisions also, so please no one take it personally (just outlining the conceptual risk).

 

There has been asbestos waste dumping in rivers, roadsides, vacant lots, farmers fields in NSW over the last few years Probably other states too, so it isn't just international corps.

 

When asbestos becomes embedded in complex systems, retirement that requires its removal becomes expensive. Companies go out of business to avoid such things. Also maintenance workers run the risk of drilling/cutting/abrading through asbestos unless it can be clearly marked and publicized. Also who hasn't seen the asbestos bandages around exhausts start to fray and disintegrate. What encapsulation can withstand what asbestos fibre is there to resist?

 

I am not up to date with changes to regulations and laws. Hopefully someone with infinitely more wisdom than I will get it right.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I am not up to date with changes to regulations and laws. Hopefully someone with infinitely more wisdom than I will get it right.

If you ignore them, your first piece of education is likely to come in the form of a writ.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Good morning all survivors All of the quotes included below concur with my experience, first starting work on thermal power stations that Greens love to hate. Asbestos (thermal insulation) fights in the enclosed spaces above boilers were the norm before I started. It convinced me that exposure does not automatically = mesothelioma even at high levels (Good for me and everyone with exposure). Asbestos is not toxic chemically. My understanding is it causes irritated inflamed sites that are more prone to cancer. I haven't seen a paper on it, but I confident that smoking (or similar) provides the carcinogenic trigger.

 

I observed a sandblaster (not slurry) recently working with no respiratory filtration, then go out for a fag:yikes:. His cough suggested he was not long for this world, poor soul. Would have reminded him, but he seemed like the type that would not respond well to safety advice. Yes this case is silicosis (silica is not toxic either), but the link to smoking was there and I believe the mechanism is very similar. Silica shards cut the lungs, regrowing tissue is mutated by smoke carcinogens.

 

Bottom line is getting anything into your lungs except air isn't good, especially smoke. Asbestos (blue asbestos, more than white) is bad because it is so fine it floats into the lungs and being so fine I suspect the body's usual way of expelling foreign bodies like splinters and bullets does not work so well.

 

If you haven't smoked and are still alive I reckon your chances are good

 

Just my 2c worth.

Unfortunately you are mistaken and there is about 60 years worth of medical data to disagree with you.

 

The basic facts are:

 

If you are exposed to INHALED asbestos you are at signidficant increased risk of

 

1: pulmonary fibrosis - scaring and tightening of the lung tissue with decreased capacity of the lungs to absorb oxygen.

 

This in itself is a NON-malignant disease though may serve as the starting ground for lung cancer ( NOT so much mesothelioma usually but the commoner squamous cell and less common adenocarcinoma type lung cancer.

 

If you smoke as well the incidence of this type of cancer goes up dramatically. But non smokers with asbestosis have a high incidence of these cancers as well.

 

2: pleural plaques. - these are thickening of the outer surface of the lungs often cause no direct problems themselves. Often present but not known about until coincidentally picked up on screening X-rays. But they may be the fertile starting ground for mesothelioma. The effect of smoking on the causation or presence is knot fully understood but They are often present in non smokers.

 

3: Mesothelioma. Probably one of the highest mortality cancers we can get. They arise in outer surface/lining of the lungs and some authorities have suggested they always arise in plaques - plaques don't have to be very thick to be a breeding ground and may not be picked on X-rays. Big and obvious ones are more cause for concerns. They are resistant to pretty much all treatments. The incidence is high in non-smokers with known exposure to asbestos but is higher in smokers.

 

Overall it's like buying tickets in the lottery.

 

If you want to win you gotta buy a ticket ( if you want to get mesothelioma you gotta inhale some asbestos)

 

But you can win with just a single ticket or you can increase your chances and buy lots of tickets.

 

If you want to really increase your chances even more you buy lots of tickets and you buy those games with the powerball already picked for certain etc. ( ie inhale asbestos and smoke. )

 

Just as you can buy lots of tickets, buy the high chance games and play a system and still not win, some lucky people can inhale lots of asbestos, smoke, get pleural plaques and still manage to evade the mesothelioma. But just cos one person does it doesn't mean the rest of the world can do the same and hope to get away with it.

 

And time does not give any indication as to whether you'll get away with it either.

 

The P50 [years] ( that is the number of years it takes from exposure to mesothelioma to appear in 50% of the population thus exposed ) appears to be about 15 -30 years. which means some people will take even longer and some sooner. So it's always a long wait to say you've dodged the bullet.