Asbestos exposure

[old man emu]

I wonder if sitting on a tractor for days on end in a cloud of dust stirred up by the plough would result in lung disease later in life.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

I wonder if sitting on a tractor for days on end in a cloud of dust stirred up by the plough would result in lung disease later in life.

Possibly/ probably/maybe.

 

Depends a lot on the size of the dust particles and the content of the dust.

 

 

[facthunter]

Is He the prime example of how things should be done? Don't WE need to protect the environment and individuals workplace situations? Nev

 

 

[Jethro Belle]

Unfortunately you are mistaken and there is about 60 years worth of medical data to disagree with you.

Maybe my message wasn't clear JW. I don't doubt the science. My 2C worth was that combined with smoking seems to be much worse, and I provided a mechanism.

 

Like many posters I note many people seem to have been massively exposed and have not succumed, so IMHO those who are worried may not need to worry so much, unless they have smoked. I don't doubt some people have asbestos related desease and think it is a horrible condition.

 

I think most people should be more concerned about where the fuel tank is, and prostate cancer!

 

If you ignore them, your first piece of education is likely to come in the form of a writ.

What laws am I breaking by not using asbestos? I was musing that I have more immediate stupid regulations to deal with and hopefully those who are responsible for regulating have more wisdom than I do. The reality is that we now live with so many rules, regulations and laws that no-one can be abreast of all of them (and be a human with a life). ALL IMHO

[turboplanner]

Not using asbestos isn’t going to hurt you.

 

Not keeping up with your legal obligations could.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

My 2C worth was that combined with smoking seems to be much worse,

I would support that view without question.

 

Both my Grandfathers died of emphysema in their early 60s, one was a Chippy probably breathing sawdust particles all his life, the other worked at Kodak and probably breathed chemicals.

 

I suspect smoking is the accelerant for many a lung disease.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...Both my Grandfathers died of emphysema in their early 60s, one was a Chippy probably breathing sawdust particles all his life, the other worked at Kodak and probably breathed chemicals...

I knew a bloke who had two hobbies: firearms and colour photography. One almost killed him, and it wasn't firearms.

 

 

[Jethro Belle]

Not keeping up with your legal obligations could.

I'm beginning to think you come from a legal background TP Anyone involved in serious professional engineering (I suspect other professions and generally everyone) is fully aware of the legal profession and its machinations. Leads to very conservative actions, since engineers are held responsible for many things, and are a key target (It was the engineers that caused the Qld floods by trying to hold water as long as they dared in the dams, apparently!). We live in a nanny state looking for someone to pay out for the stupidity or self-interest of others IMHO, while collecting significant fees. I have seen it play out during jury duty

 

I am not promoting risky or dangerous undertakings (see my other posts before you flame me). In any case, this is a site about flying and aeroplanes:victory:

 

 

[Jethro Belle]

Depends a lot on the size of the dust particles and the content of the dust.

Especially the shape. Freshly fractured particles that sustain sharp edges (Silica grinding/blasting dust) or points (like asbestos) are the most dangerous. Well weathered dust from plowing isn't pleasant, but the mucus can expel it when you cough, before it cuts and penetrates the lung membranes (IMHO put simply).

 

I wonder if sitting on a tractor for days on end in a cloud of dust stirred up by the plow would result in lung disease later in life.

I suspect there is more risk from bacterial infections, so a particulate filter (cab or PPE) would be good. Done it myself without, so not knocking anyone.

 

 

[turboplanner]

We live in a nanny state looking for someone to pay out for the stupidity or self-interest of others IMHO, while collecting significant fees. I have seen it play out during jury duty

You mentioned you were not up with the latest regulations and rules; this thread shows the precedent case for public liability Donoghue v Stevenson - Wikipedia,

and the "Public Liability" thread has a lot of examples of how things are now different to the way they were. Once you get the hang of it, it can be easier to work with because to have a lot more control over how you meet safe standards.

 

Regarding Asbestos, USEPA has just moved responsibility over to Industry, but if the other information about air quality are correct, PM10 and PM2.5 emission levels could become important for aircraft engine builders. The car and truck industry has reduced particulates by 97% since 1992, and that would be the likely starting benchmark.

 

 

[facthunter]

The toxicity of farm dust must be associated with what's in the dust, resulting from (in some part) with what has been sprayed there over the last 30+ years. and how it is retained. Open cut coal mines are worse. They dampen down the dust constantly with water that seeps out of the aquifers which concentrates more and more by being reused. Nev

 

 

[old man emu]

I suspect there is more risk from bacterial infections, so a particulate filter (cab or PPE) would be good. Done it myself without, so not knocking anyone.

Ahh! The innocence of Youth. I did my tractor time back in the 70's before all this WH&S stuff kicked off, and PPE meant a Frenchie.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Maybe my message wasn't clear JW. I don't doubt the science. My 2C worth was that combined with smoking seems to be much worse, and I provided a mechanism.

Like many posters I note many people seem to have been massively exposed and have not succumed, so IMHO those who are worried may not need to worry so much, unless they have smoked. ........ snip.........

 

I think most people should be more concerned about where the fuel tank is, and prostate cancer!

I guess you are sending a mixed message of: ““worry” but if you haven’t smoked then “don’t worry” “

 

But as I said that is not what the science tells us.

 

The statistics say “worry” and if you also smoke “worry more!”

 

Which is moving the "worry spectrum" up an order of magnitude.

 

Sure there are lots of people who have had exposure and are not apparently affected. Some get lucky but given the long lag time before symptoms etc then really no one is ever past the time of possible emergence of the disease. Longest time frame of any of my patients I’ve treated is 45 years from exposure to mesothelioma.

 

So Still a case of worry but as your age gets closer to something else getting you first then yep you can stop worrying so much.

 

Comparison to prostate cancer is probably not valid.

 

If you don’t have any known exposure to asbestos your risk of mesothelioma is so close its almost zero. And If you do there is no known lifestyle pattern that can decrease your risk ( not smoking etc only keeps at from not rising but nothing makes it go down. You just gotta hope you’ve got lucky.

 

If you are male and you live past about 60 your risk of prostate cancer starts about 1:7 (14%) and by age over 80 your risk of prostate cancer is ~100%. No exposure to any known carcinogen necessary. (?though there are some that increase the risk - good ol’ smoking is in this list plus bad genes and a few other things) .

 

Unlike mesothelioma and asbestos exposure There is a demonstrable preventative for prostate cancer. Ejaculate more than 21 times a month, every month, and the risk is decreased by 30%.

 

If you get mesothelioma there is no treatment shown to work and the prognosis is dead in less than a year.

 

If you get prostate cancer there are multiple treatments that have good success rates ( including doing nothing for some patients - hence the quandary as to what treatment to recommend ) though of course some people do still succumb to it.

 

All in all mesothelioma is a bad, bad thing to get.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Can I get those 21 ejaculations on Medicare?

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Don't look at me. I ain't helping you!!

 

I'm pretty sure the Hypocratic Oath doesn't extend that far!!!!

 

( by the way, the assembled masses may be interested to know that doctors don't take the Hypocratic Oath and haven't for decades. I graduated in 1987 and while we were given a nice copy of the oath to put in a framed we never ever actually stood up and recited it, took it or pledged allegiance to it. )

 

 

[turboplanner]

The toxicity of farm dust must be associated with what's in the dust, resulting from (in some part) with what has been sprayed there over the last 30+ years. and how it is retained. Open cut coal mines are worse. They dampen down the dust constantly with water that seeps out of the aquifers which concentrates more and more by being reused. Nev

It used to be a badge of honour for me to come in from harrowing a paddock, wearing a pair of shorts, as black as the ace of spade all over.

If I blew my nose, there was a great long stream of black.

 

However, the particulates which do the lung damage, PM10 and PM2.5 in particular, are not visible to the naked eye, so the visible stuff was pretty harmless. I could still be exposed though through those finer particles.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

...snip....However, the particulates which do the lung damage, PM10 and PM2.5 in particular, are not visible to the naked eye, so the visible stuff was pretty harmless. I could still be exposed though through those finer particles.

The real world is a bit more complex than that.

The large particles don't get generally past the so-called "middle order airways" ( the lower levels are where it needs to get for the fibrosis type diseases we have been talking about) but nothing is ever simple.

 

Upper order airways ( nose, sinuses, throat, trachea and large airpassages in the lungs ) still get a dust load and in those locations there are still severe and chronic illnesses that can result.

 

Some of the large particles get laid down in the air passages (and especially if you smoke ) can then trickle down to lower parts of the lungs and still produce problems.

 

But the major problems we see from constant large particles inhalation is sinus and nasal disease. In tropical areas dust and dirt is commonly contaminated by bacteria and fungi and fungus inhalation is common and can cause lung fibrosis in itself.

 

Nothing is simple and everything is bad for you!

 

 

[Jethro Belle]

I guess you are sending a mixed message of: ““worry” but if you haven’t smoked then “don’t worry” “

Great reply Jaba, and what I was fishing for Thanks for today's lesson.

 

I particularly like your prescription to provide the Mrs more satisfaction :hide:Do you have the bibliographic data for that paper ?

 

I still believe those who did not smoke (or have similar carcinogenic intake while being expose) should not worry too much. It wont change anything. I didn't say don't get checked if something seems amiss. I have been exposed similar to many reading this, and worrying about since I read up on it in the 80s would not have done much except depress me. My Mother, Father , Brother all died from smoking related diseases.

 

Thanks

 

 

[Jethro Belle]

Theilert-Gemini Diesel particulates

 

 

[facthunter]

Apparently diesel particulates are not good. I wrote that before I read yours, Jethro. Great minds think alike. Smoking has to be the dumbest thing you can do to yourself. (signed reformed smoker).Nev

 

 

[Jethro Belle]

Apparently diesel particulates are not good. I wrote that before I read yours, Jethro. Great minds think alike. Smoking has to be the dumbest thing you can do to yourself. (signed reformed smoker).Nev

I lost mine some time ago, and maintain everything I say should not be used as the basis for any action by anyone else

 

 

[facthunter]

If you don't want prostate cancer get your balls cut of at an early age. ( Prior to Puberty) Might keep you out of a lot of trouble as well as an extra bonus..There are some parts of the world where it is almost unknown.(the cancer not the operation). Whether that's genetic or lifestyle is in question but some studies indicate it's predominantly lifestyle. When people migrated they conformed to the local likelihood.. Nev

 

 

[pmccarthy]

My first job was ten years in a lead mine with diesels underground. Fifty years on the lead and the diesel haven’t got me but I do worry about the fibro home renovations.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...There is a demonstrable preventative for prostate cancer. Ejaculate more than 21 times a month, every month, and the risk is decreased by 30%...

Can I get a script for that?

Decades ago my GP diagnosed my prostate as being enlarged. As it ran in the family, I was concerned.

 

I have had no symptoms since, after following the advice of an aged health professional:

 

Use it or lose it; p1ss on morse code.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Can I get a script for that?Decades ago my GP diagnosed my prostate as being enlarged. As it ran in the family, I was concerned.

 

I have had no symptoms since, after following the advice of an aged health professional:

 

Use it or lose it; p1ss on morse code.

Tell yas my experience, in the hope it may help someone:

 

A bit past 40, I was having the classic 'around 40 year old' symptoms, lots of knacker's discomfort, short stream time, always wanting to go but often nothing, like a British motorcycle, hard to start in the moring etc.

 

About the same time I moved to China. like most Asians, Chinese drink hard, generally a white spirit made from sorghum, 55% alcohol. I fell in to the 'New Friend' drinking trap, and was getting just about paraletic at least 2 times a week. The hangovers were out of this world.

 

I spent a lot of time researching and testing about every hangover cure I could find, very little worked until I spoke to a young Doctor on the net who swore he had not a cure, but a reasonable fix for the problem. It works, take the fix before you go out, again 5 minutes before bed, and in the morning when you wake up.

 

It is a specific mix of Vitamin B, 1 part each of B1, B2 , B6 and 2 parts B12. Theres is a medical reason of what they do inside your liver or something, that breaks down the alcohol of your main organs or something (Hey, I ain't a Doctor).

 

You don't buy a typical off the shelf multi B tablet, you buy the raw vitamins seperate. Here in China you buy them in small jars, and you take about 300 to 500 millgrams of each. Seems a hell of a lot when they are all in your hand, but it's the dose you need.

 

I started taking these doses daily to combat the nights out drinking or socialising till late otherwise, and they really work and the hangovers were far less intrusive, and they give an energy boost to add.

 

BUT....

 

After a few months I stated to notice a large difference with my prostate. I started returning to normal downstairs. It was just great, what a relief. Now I suspected that the vitamins were doing it so continued to take them every morning, even though I had learned how to say no and slow the drinking down (almost zero these years).

 

For most, when you take something daily, over time you just start to forget and eventually you just stop, not intentional, just how it ends up.

 

Guess what ... as i slowed down and eventually stopped taking the Vit Bs, about a year or more later my prostate starts playing up again, slowly some symptons started coming back. Back onto the Vit B full course daily, and just weeks later symptons completely gone again. ... and taken in the morning, don't take them in the evening or you won't sleep (unless you have been drinking of course), quite the stimulant, bit like caffein.

 

I have gone through this cycle a few times over the last 13 years, and absolutely 100% this is my cure for my prostate troubles. I have passed it on to a number of people, one Oz guy in China shouted me out to dinner 4 months after I put him onto it, he went from daily agony to 'cured' in that time frame. He would rave about it every time I met him later on. His missus was pretty happy about it all too, nudge nudge.

 

I am not a doctor, this is not medical advice, nor can I prove it out as fact, I'm just relating a personal story as it happened to me, your mileage may vary. It is critical to take the mix as I described. again; equal parts B1, 2 and 6, and double B12.