MAYDAY CALL

[Bruce Tuncks]

You guys are right but I'm in trouble here cos the wife has just got a bill from the club for over $600.

 

Not much of that was flying stuff.

 

There are many organizations which can just pass costs onwards and so they don't have any incentive to minimize the costs. The government, the council, RAAus, the GFA, the ASC. Bugger I'm a member or constituent of all of them.

 

Well at least the knackery truck will be the last bill. And in the meantime I'm too scared to do a mayday.

 

 

[turboplanner]

You guys are right but I'm in trouble here cos the wife has just got a bill from the club for over $600.Not much of that was flying stuff.

There are many organizations which can just pass costs onwards and so they don't have any incentive to minimize the costs. The government, the council, RAAus, the GFA, the ASC. Bugger I'm a member or constituent of all of them.

 

Well at least the knackery truck will be the last bill. And in the meantime I'm too scared to do a mayday.

I see layering costs upon costs as the biggest threat facing struggling families.

Examples:

 

Price of something worth $50.00 goes up10%, that triggers a 10% rise in the GST, SO THE COST GOES UP $5.00 PLUS 50 CENTS = $5.50

 

Private power companies have split themselves into two; the wholesale company which buys power off the power generator (both making a profit), and the retail company who not only sells the power at the elevated price but adds a margin on also, plus GST.

 

For people in the City - Toll accounts with prices based on formulae which return a full cpi increase, when their costs are going down - My tolol bill now is about $700.00 per year.

 

Meat and other primary produce where three or four selling and distribution companies may take a profit before the product is sold, for example some bacon sold in Australia onlly has packaging and distribution done here.

 

Spare parts some parts, such as some spark plug leads have gone from around 500 profit to 170 times the cost, and the GST goes on top of the sale price.

 

LP Gas, where we now buy gas pumped from Bass Strait, from China.

 

Land, which is bought from farmers at around $6000.00 per hectare and goes up though agent upon agent to finally be land-banked for a few years, creating the "Shortage" for which young couples have to pay (guess) $600,000 per block (and they aren't quarter acre blocks).

 

There's a LOT of fat in that lot to ease your burden Bruce.

 

 

[facthunter]

Capitalism fixes everything. It self regulates and Competition (the thing they try to eliminate and make it a monopoly) will keep prices to the absolute minimum. If you believe that, the tooth fairy is your friend. The GST is a DEAD HAND that goes on the price of everything making everyone into a tax collector for the government. At least a day a month for the paperwork.. IF you thought you could eat out that might just be the amount that makes it too expensive unless it's someone's birthday, when you splash out. If you are rich it goes on your cost and is tax free as is the car and you club and some of your house.. Gst is the tax that taxes tax. Get rid of it and watch the economy thrive. Tax on wholesale selectively like we did once..Nev

 

 

[Geoff13]

Having made a MAYDAY call, and seeing the response and then having discussed it at length on this forum and in other places, I would not hesitate to make a call again.

 

If you are not certain of what condition the plane or you are going to be in when the dust settles, it is actually a relief and a load off you mind to know that Fireries and Ambo's know that you may need help and where you plan to put down.

 

As for the cost of a callout, what price a life, you or your Pax.

 

Even when I was to busy to respond it was comforting to know that Area were listening in.

 

As for seeing professionalism at its best I certainly did that day.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Nev, when the GST came in, I was in favor of it because I was paying excessive income tax and there were many rich people paying nothing. At least they will pay when they buy stuff I thought.

 

AND the GST is a simpler tax. The tax law in Australia is too complex for any single person to understand, and the whole tax thing is maybe Australia's biggest and most non-productive industry.

 

I would replace all other taxes with an increased GST.

 

Imagine if you didn't have to go to an agent and file a return etc....And what about all those $2000 per hour tax QC's who go to the tax court for you? We could give them charity I guess. As well as the tax judges.. Nice daydream huh?

 

 

[facthunter]

NO .The rich love your idea. Isn't that enough proof of it's blunt biased to hit the already badly off who spend ALL their income so pay the full rate on every dollar.? To enforce it you then have to have a cashless economy .. Not my idea of a better quality of life. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

Ambulances are free here in Tassie too. I don't know why any state would charge for emergency medical treatment. Do the police send you a bill after they turn up at your car accident, or the firies charge you for putting out your house fire?

 

 

[Pearo]

not sure what when wrong in this thread. Engine failure, fly the plane, call mayday if you can, no one cares about ambo costs or any other bullshit, just get the plane on the ground.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

When everything else has been sold off, I reckon they might start charging for .other emergency services like police and fire.

 

Imagine ringing the police and having to pay upfront...

 

I don't think this is thread drift, the cost of calling a mayday should be nothing, and if its not, we should all know.

 

But then I agree with Marty and reckon an ambulance should be free everywhere.

 

I had a mate who was an ambulance dispatcher in Darwin, and the bane of his life was indigenous people who called for an ambulance to take them into town. They would stage a miraculous recovery and climb out before they got to the hospital.

 

 

[turboplanner]

When everything else has been sold off, I reckon they might start charging for .other emergency services like police and fire.Imagine ringing the police and having to pay upfront...

Police charging is already in place in Victoria. A woman came out from the US recently on a speaking tour of extremist thoughts, which normally attract large crowds, and was charged tens of thousands of dollars for police costs to attend the meeting.

It's conditional though. The same police ("there are no Sudanese gangs") attended a fight involving up to a hundred, lets say tall, skinny, white challenged youths, and not only charged them nothing to attend even though one of their cars was damaged by the flying rocks, but ordered residents to go inside and lock their doors, and then told the press there was no threat to the community. It's a changing world.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Hard to argue with you Nev, and I concede that you are right to the extent that the rich actually do pay a higher rate than ordinary people.

 

I think this is true for say medical specialists who can't hide their incomes ( $28,000 a day income for eye surgeons, I guess they are on the top tax bracket )

 

BUT there are those ( Kerry Packer was one ) who paid NO tax . Drug lords would be similar. At least they would pay some GST.

 

 

[facthunter]

When you design a tax it would be ridiculous to impose one on people who already need support and who would therefore be more disadvantaged. They say we will adjust for that by increasing the pension etc and then later quote how "leaners" are costing "hard working Australians)" so many hours a week to give it to them and later demonise them for being a great burden on society. The GST doesn't fit "must be able to afford" test.. Every economist knows it's a blunt instrument that hits low income people the hardest. Being ABLE to pay a tax is a fundamental requirement of any socially responsible system of tax.. It's also labor intensive to collect it and has flow on things like a "cashless " society being proposed. When you have had your identity stolen and credit card compromised 3 times in as many months that's a really bad prospect.

 

What you get for your tax is what should be the question. and how much waste, pork barreling and featherbedding might be happening.. New roads in marginal electorates etc.. Australia has to be the best place in the world. Where is Better? I was going to go and live in Oregon many years ago. I'm now glad I didn't. If paying a bit of tax is your biggest worry you aren't doing too bad.. Nev

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Broadly speaking Nev I have to agree that at least our taxes generally here are used for the purposes they have been collected.

 

I very recently had to do a trip to South Africa because my wife’s father had a heart attack and was in public hospital ICU then the ward. Now that’s a place where taxes are truly rorted. Politicians there own property and houses worth 40 and 50 times their salaries. No way they got it legally.

 

But while they have that the major teaching hospital in Bloemfontein patients have to bring in their own blankets, their own urinals and bribe nurses to get nursing care.

 

Bronwyn Bishop had to resign here for taking a one hour chartered helicopter flight. There individual politicians get their own airforce squadron of helicopters for personal use. And the streets of the major cities are piled high with uncollected rubbish and people of all colours ( most notedly to me - whites with signs begging for vegetables and other food donations) are begging at traffic lights.

 

Whingers here don’t realise just how good and how little corruption there actually is here.

 

But Tuncks has it also right. Most high income earners ( and these days being a teacher or nurse working shifts and weekends pushes you into the high income earners) are the ONLY ones paying tax. This is something that s..ts me. We have a lot of whingers who call high earners parasites but these noisy buggers don’t pay any tax thenselves.

 

Currently if you have kids then a family has to exceed about $50k before they actually pay any tax. As I am sure most are aware but usually forget, 65% or something like it of the actual $ collected in tax are paid by 25% of the workers. Which somewhat proves that the vast majority of high earners actually DO pay their full share of tax and CAN’T emmbark on tax avoidance as our ( mostly Labor party) “us vs them” Class war mongers try to make out - sadly to a population who are only to glad to believe it too.

 

I actually work from Monday to Wednesday lunchtime “for the tax department” then I work from then till Thursday morning or lunchtime to pay my staff my practice costs etc then after than I start getting some for myself my wife and my kids. No capacity to hide income and no capacity avoid tax. No income AT ALL till Thursday. Thanks to our tax system.

 

Ok I have a social conscience and am glad to pay a fair share of tax to stop being accosted by beggars on every street corner and to be sure people get good teachers, emergency and medical care and we all get good roads.

 

But something that really gets up hard workers noses, who actually worked, studied, bettered themselves often at great expense

 

and effort to get ahead and earn a good living for their efforts and responsibilities is then to have 50% taken off them, and then to be told by real parasites that they don’t deserve what they earned and that even more should be taken off them.

 

Something I have learned is that Australians all seem to have the belief that everyone who earns more than they do, doesn’t deserve it and no matter how much they already pay in tax they always have enough to have some more of it taken off them and they won’t miss it. Reality of course is that no matter what you earn your costs seem to always grow to fit it. I have seen plenty of “rich” people in real financial difficulty and not from just being financially imprudent.

 

But anyway I am sure my thoughts will fall on a lot of deaf ears.

 

 

[facthunter]

I didn't say ANYWHERE that people who earn high amounts of money don't deserve it Some do and some don't.. I just said essentially why tax people who simply can't pay it as they are already seriously poor?. Try living on the pension. Most know that you can't.. I've been in different circumstances and didn't take the pension for about 3 years after I could because I was ashamed that I needed to.

 

I have Kids and grandkids like most people nieces etc so I get a good cross section of what's going on. My wife was a registered Tax agent for many years being accountant qualified till they decreed the agent was responsible for the customers signed statements that then requiring high insurance cover so she wisely chucked it in.

 

Most of my kids are Tradies who train apprentices and do the right thing and some times really struggle ,some of whom got a rotten deal recently from the ridiculous algorithm and a tax and centrelink stuff up that nearly forced them into complete bankruptcy and that's your favourite mob with their get "more from the losers" policy. that sacks ATO workers and Centrelink staff to the extent they can't do the job properly

 

I've earned good figures at times when I paid a much higher tax rate than you now do or probably ever will. I didn't like that and I had no significant deductions as well. Australia is a large place with potentially high costs per capita to shoulder like out friends in New Zealand. We have a lot to support.

 

Your statement, Australians" ALL" seem to have the belief" that's a bit emotional and unlikely to be a fact. You didn't present it as one but.....

 

.You as a doctor benefit from the system of Public health being subsidized as do the patients I have to find a couple of thousand dollars. annually to insure to get better access to private and still have to find 100s of dollars for Hospital extras and specialists costs and any doctor who doesn't charge the standard fee..

 

I never thought I would go back to the level of money deficit I had when at Uni in my late teens. when I only had one pair of drip dry trousers. and got around in underpants till they dried on the line when I washed them at weekends.. I taught full time and did Uni 4 nights a week. rented in some dreadful premises You got moved around at the drop of a hat and paid a pittance.

 

I now worry about being able to survive financially constantly..

 

You run a practice and employ people. That's also an added risk and worry that could send you broke but you are no different to any business in that respect , but that is your choice..

 

WE are not the highest taxed country of all the developed ones OECD etc..when you check it all out and include all taxes that apply. Some of the best places to live in are structured. along those lines. They are pretty civilized.

 

When we have the level of homeless and poverty here that we DO have, we should DO something about it and not just make life harder by calling all of them bludgers and parasites. People spivving the system aren't all labor voters.. The real expert spivvers are being uncovered beautifully by the "resisted till the bitter end by the LNP" Banking Royal commission.. How nice at last they get exposed for the crooks they are. They who live in another world the ordinary people never can imagine.. Nev

 

 

[Jiefuster]

Mayday = LIFE is in grave or imminent danger. Either it is or isn't and respectfully, any forced landing onto terrain that is 'best choice at the time', the outcome is highly likely to be uncertain, and you are at grave risk of smacking your body into in moving bits at considerable speed. Thinking about it takes mental resources which you need to focus on flying, particularly at low level. Make the call. Cancelling is easy. Getting help is not so.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Hey,So I'm a student pilot learning to get my certificate and I fly at an un-controlled airfield where we use the radio to broadcast positions e.g base, rolling etc. My question is, lets say you have an engine failure in the circuit, what phrase would you use?? MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY ?? or PAN PAN PAN. or would yhou just say Traffic [location] engine failure?

 

thanks,

 

Riley

There is a formal set of circumstances and format to call a Mayday, and similar requirements to make a Pan call, along with a whole lot of other procedures, including learning the phonetic alphabet. You may never come across most of these at the local airfield, but as you proceed with your training and start flying in to busier airfields, you're going to be at a disadvantage if you're not up to speed. I'd recommend you ask your instructor to show you where you can obtain the radio training material required for your course.

 

 

[boleropilot]

2 points I would like to make - 1 - the Qld ambulance payment concept is brilliant. I had a short fall off a deck, spun around to catch a downpipe nearby (missed it, don't think it wooda saved me), fell about a metre and landed on my back across a 2 inch wide beam = four broken ribs, quite a few cracked - oh yeah - and a punctured lung. we live on acreage, the nearest ambo station is 30 minutes drive. they sent an ambulance, it got to within 4km of us, and discovered a flooded creek. they called for a 4wd ambulance, it picked me up, took me down through the creek, swapped me into the other ambulance, and drove for 45 minutes to the nearest hospital that could cover those injuries. must have been close to a ride in a helicopter. imagine what the bill could have added up to....

 

2 - the old adage of Aviate Navigate Communicate is life saving advice - my priorities will always be (1) get the aircraft on the ground in a manner that gives me the best chance of survival - PLB ON immediately, check where I'm going to put 'er down, and concentrate on that - if I get comfortable enough to talk to someone, a mayday call could be a life saver too - forget about circuit legs, just concentrate on AIRSPEED and keeping the best glide going - better high than low, learn to sideslip for rapid height loss if too high, maybe even practice a ground loop or two...

 

oh yeah - and stop starting sentences with "So"........

 

 

[turboplanner]

2 - the old adage of Aviate Navigate Communicate is life saving advice - my priorities will always be (1) get the aircraft on the ground in a manner that gives me the best chance of survival - PLB ON immediately, check where I'm going to put 'er down, and concentrate on that - if I get comfortable enough to talk to someone, a mayday call could be a life saver too - forget about circuit legs, just concentrate on AIRSPEED and keeping the best glide going - better high than low, learn to sideslip for rapid height loss if too high, maybe even practice a ground loop or two...

That procedure might not be much use to a new student who has to pass his/her test before the first solo, however it raises some interesting questions.

Aviate Navigate Communicate is a current piece of wisdom, and even more important with so many RA people dropping into a stall after an engine failure, however this is for a SEQUENCE of actions, and the OP question was "what phrase to you use?"

 

Quite a few pilots have died with their PLBs inactive and months/years later hikers have found a tibia and a tattered aircraft frame.

 

If you are at 1000 feet and the engine quits, and if your glide descent is 700 feet per second, it will take about 86 seconds to touchdown. and your reaction time is 2 seconds, another 2 seconds for the "aviate" to nose down and trim trim for glide, and another 2 seconds for the "Navigate" to pick an area where you won't get killed, you then have 80 seconds to "Communicate" and try to get the engine started, all the while eyeing that landing spot and switching to a better one of available.

 

A formal Mayday call takes around 7 to 8 seconds, so there's plenty of time to call in the above sequence, which is why it's part of the forced landing drill pilots are taught and checked on during a BFR.

 

These days everyone who flies, whether owning their own aircraft, or just hiring, can afford a PLB, but there have been fatalities where the PLB was in the luggage compartment, pilot's bag, fixed in the aircraft but not activated etc.

 

However in BP's case it appears to be readily able to be activated in flight, and if it can be activated early, say in conjunction with the Navigate phase, that's going to tell AMSA in Canberra that a beacon has been activated, and the precise location, but it can't tell them how many POB, the nature of the problem (which could be about to extend for an hour or more) etc.

 

Every time I've been checked for a forced landing, in GA or RA it seems to be from 1500 feet and a simulated engine failure; in real life there could be a fire in the engine compartment, where fire services would be handy if you could make an airfield or road, it could be that you've just about exhausted your fuel supplies and are likely to have the classic FL any minute, or it could be a million other things, and in particular weather related.

 

If you're cruising along a valley in the sunshine and start to have a medical event, you can call a Mayday and have a medical response team tasked along with the usual police and fire.

 

If you are call a Mayday and there's no response, and I'm flying nearby, within seconds I'll be calling a Mayday relay, and likely will be circling your position to guide rescue vehicles in before you run out of blood.

 

There's a case which you can find on ATSB where a pilot was trapped by cloud in a valley in southern NSW he was below line of sight with ATC but an airliner picked up his mayday call and started circling overhead above the cloud. The airline pilot couldn't see him, and he couldn't see the airliner, but ATC got the maps out and checked the valley altitudes vs the cloud base, and were able to instruct the airliner co pilot to guide the Mayday aircraft down a valley, across into another set of valleys, and then down towards the coast.

 

Your survival percentages go way up with radio.

 

oh yeah - and stop starting sentences with "So"........

So is a subordinating conjunction, among many other things, and is often used as a connector.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I often start sentences with So, And and But.. not to mention bug#er and worse.

 

Don't look for any improvement, I'm too old to change.

 

 

[boleropilot]

So there I was, flying along with my subordinate who happened to have conjunctivitis, and a connector failed on the aircraft, like, and, like, we had an injun failure, and, like, I was so confused I forgot to call Finals

 

So then I realised there was only ONE final, like, ONE Downwind, ONE Base, and ONE Final, and then I got really confused and dint keep my speed up and we stalled and all they found was the wreckage and a fibula...

 

I'm just sayin"......

 

BP

 

 

[turboplanner]

I often start sentences with So, And and But.. not to mention bug#er and worse.Don't look for any improvement, I'm too old to change.

Grammar is hard to catch up on if you missed a few days school, your parents changed towns etc. but you don't need a lot of grammar books to catch up.

Spelling is much the same - a few books to study, and you'll be a star.

 

We went through an appalling period in the 1970s where the education clique figured if the other person could understand more or less what you wrote, who cares; unfortunately for a generation of Australians, employers cared.

 

Things have changed; this is last week's spelling homework for Grade 1 in Victoria (6/7 year olds):

 

glamourous

 

glucose

 

flexibility

 

flabbergasted

 

fluorescent

 

asleep

 

beautiful

 

before

 

between

 

bought

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Wow Turbs, my grandkids go to school in Melbourne but I don't think they are that good... I'll try them out.

 

My work is cut out reading to them and trying to get them to read to me. The screen generation don't seem to read enough these days.

 

Personally, I went to school in Alice Springs and I reckon the teachers were quite good. (The headmasters were dreadful, but that's another story ).

 

And the teachers had the authority needed to stop the rough kids running the classroom. Those rough kids even learned to read and write.

 

Nowadays those rough kids have a lot more power... some time ago, I asked one of the grandkids what he did in school that day .." nothing Grandpa", he said

 

"Seb was being naughty all day".

 

Seb is an Asberger's kid, whatever that means. I think it means that his therapy takes precedence over the rest of the class and their learning.

 

 

[biggles]

and if your glide descent is 700 feet per second,

I know you mean “ per minute “ Turbs ! ...... Bob

 

 

[turboplanner]

Oops!

 

 

[boleropilot]

one of the best T shirts I ever saw had this printed on the front: IF ITS TOO LOUD, YOUR TOO OLD

 

in my opinion, he may just as well have worn a T shirt that pronounced: I'M AN IDIOT, I CAN'T SPELL AND NEITHER CAN THE IDIOTS WHO MADE THIS T SHIRT

 

BP