GA Medical Class 2 basic

[Geoff_H]

After spending $200 plus each two years and now reaching 70 and having to do Class 2 medicals each year I decided to do the Basic medical, save some money. How wrong I was. Yes CASA only charge $10 to process it but, I have spent two visits to our medical fraternity and have been charged around $240 dollars in medical examinations and nearly 2.5 hours in these examinations. Went to my usual GP, she is far more cautious than any pilot DAME that I have ever been to. That flying is so dangerous! She could not do the simple eye test and asked me to get a certificate for the heavy vehicle licence eye test from an optometrist. $100 dollars! her fee $125. And I still have to fill out a sleep questionnaire as she gave me some tablets for some sleep problems during a recent very worrying time. I just wish that I had gone to a DAME.

 

 

[Thruster88]

Hi Geoff, did you give the good doctor any feed back, as you know a dame can do a class 2 in about 30 minutes. There is nothing complicated about the eye test.

 

 

[Geoff_H]

The eye test was so comprehensive. Apparently this is what they do for the heavy vehicle driving examination. Took about an hour.

 

 

[derekliston]

It is just more CASA bullshit. They say that the DAME can sign off on a class 2 medical now but because I had a heart attack four years ago I have to have a stress echo-cardio gram (with which I don’t have a problem because it keeps track of my health) and then they have to ‘audit’ my medical results. I asked my DAME are they then, suggesting that they are better qualified to assess me, upon whom they have never laid eyes, than my DAME who sees me every year?

 

 

[derekliston]

Bit upset that this site apparently censors a good old Australian expression like b....s..t!

 

 

[Thruster88]

I did my last road train medical about four years ago, (retired) the eye test was the same as class2's I have done before and since then. Maybe they are getting tougher on commercial drivers now day's.

 

 

[old man emu]

The eye test was so comprehensive. Apparently this is what they do for the heavy vehicle driving examination. Took about an hour.

I did my annual HV driver's licence medical last week. Because I needed some new glasses (badly scratched lenses) I had had an eye test at Specsavers a week before that. I asked the optometrist for a report, and just handed that to my GP who ticked the box on medical form.

 

And I couldn't resist:

 

 

 

[facthunter]

IF you are over 70 you should have regular eye examinations anyhow to help diagnose conditions that may rob you of your eyesight if untreated.. That report would be sufficient for the doctor.. The sleep apnea thing was one of the latest (trendy). new things. For some it could have been a problem if you long solo flights. BUT where does it stop.? Nev.

 

 

[old man emu]

Last year I was arguing here that all the hullabaloo about Body Mass Index and sleep apnoea was a crock of shite. Now I must change my tune. After using a CPAP machine nightly for over six months, I can only recommend strongly that if you are over 50 years old, or of average or above average height and weigh in the region of 100 kgs or more, that you look into acquiring a CPAP machine.

 

I haven't had such recuperative sleep for years. My wife says that I don't snore. I go out like a light at night, even if I've had a very mentally active day. And I usually get a straight 7 to 7.5 hours uninterrupted sleep.

 

And I don't start yawning mid-afternoon while fighting my way through the traffic created by Yummy Mummys going to pick up their Grubby Bubbies.

 

 

[gareth lacey]

Last year I was arguing here that all the hullabaloo about Body Mass Index and sleep apnoea was a crock of shite. Now I must change my tune. After using a CPAP machine nightly for over six months, I can only recommend strongly that if you are over 50 years old, or of average or above average height and weigh in the region of 100 kgs or more, that you look into acquiring a CPAP machine.I haven't had such recuperative sleep for years. My wife says that I don't snore. I go out like a light at night, even if I've had a very mentally active day. And I usually get a straight 7 to 7.5 hours uninterrupted sleep.

 

And I don't start yawning mid-afternoon while fighting my way through the traffic created by Yummy Mummys going to pick up their Grubby Bubbies.

However one size dies not fit all i used a cpap for three months and it made me tired average sleep per night was 4.5 hrs and then made me tired through day,diagnosed with mild sleep apnea casa then wants 12 months recording for my class 2abd it is worse for me so no longer can hold class 2 and i won't be oaying for a machine as thier is no data to say that it will impede my flying so back to raa

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

All continues to plan. The aim is to eliminate private aviation as far as possible. This was confirmed by Carmody and his deputy recently when they said that wasn't the plan.

 

When a politician or government official says something isn't so, you can bet the opposite is true.

 

 

[turboplanner]

All continues to plan. The aim is to eliminate private aviation as far as possible. This was confirmed by Carmody and his deputy recently when they said that wasn't the plan.When a politician or government official says something isn't so, you can bet the opposite is true.

So, you want to tell 10,000 members of an organisation that they have no future on the basis of your own theory that the Chief Executive Officer and Director of Aviation Safety really means the opposite of what he says.

That'll work.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Not only RAAus memeberRPL and PPL holder sand aircraft owners.

 

It doesn't matter what politicians and government officials SAY, just look at what they DO.

 

 

[shafs64]

I an going to do mine soon. As i just found out i live next door a DAME.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I have a Austroads commercial licence but it has conditions so the new CASA rules exclude me even though I can drive the biggest and heaviest vehicles on the road with this licence.

 

I wrote to CASA and the transport minister two weeks ago telling them that this was unfair and I felt I was being discriminated against and would look at taking CASA to the Equal Opportunities Tribunal for discrimation.

 

I got a phone call from CASA in Canberra around 8 days later.

 

The guy was very pleasant and we had a discussion about it for a while. Basically his explanation to me as why it is unconditional is that your GP is not across the specifics of aviation medicine and would possibly not know if any of the issues would be worse in a aviation environment. It was a reasonable argument on his part. This has never been explained in their paperwork

 

I then complained about Avmed and their totally illogical approach to Class 2 medical sign offs. he then said to me the new Basic Class 2 medical that the DAME signs off on is not challenged by CASA and basically gets rubber stamp approval from them. this is the one where the DAME can sign you off directly.

 

I said maybe 20% of DAME have done what is required the rest are not interested and he told me its now around 50% have taken it up.

 

The upshot is that if you can find one of these DAME who will look at your specific case and with a logical level head will sign off on you then you are good to go.

 

He emailed me a list of DAME around Brisbane who can do the sign off.

 

I am having a Cardiac echo tomorrow and also a stress test. IF I pass the stress test tomorrow there should be no reason why I can not get the medical sign off. I will be heading to a local DAME who I KNOW is a sensible doctor and armed with these results should hopefully get the basic class 2 medical. Then I can go for my RPL

 

We will see I suppose what happens but it all hinges on the stress test tomorrow. I had a issue just over a week ago where I thought I may have had a ticker issue and went to the hospital bt it turned out to be fluid between my left lung and the chest wall. The hospital rang my cardiologist to get my records and then they have come back to me asking if I would come in and do the echo and stress test. Mind you its a expensive exercise. $410 for the echo and $220 for the stress test and then the specialist appt in the afternoon so kiss goodbye to a grand !! I will be lucky to get 30% back from my medical fund.

 

I will see what happens tomorrow

 

Mark

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Yes, CASA lied when they said they had achieved medical reform. There has been no significant reform at all.

 

Why would you believe anything else they say?

 

UK CAA did the risk analysis and decided the medical achieved nothing much and the risk was extremely low in any case. This is in the UK where the population density of innocents on the ground and in the air is much higher.

 

For the kind of aircraft we are talking about you simply send the CAA a letter saying you can drive a PRIVATE car, medically unrestricted, ONCE. Over 70 you need to send it every 3 years.

 

What a contrast to Australia.

 

BTW I have a friend who was a commercial pilot who turned 60 and had to do the Stress test. At his third one the female doctor said - "these things are dangerous, I wouldn't do one". He took this medical advice to heart (sorry) and gave up commercial flying.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

I have a Austroads commercial licence but it has conditions so the new CASA rules exclude me even though I can drive the biggest and heaviest vehicles on the road with this licence.I wrote to CASA and the transport minister two weeks ago telling them that this was unfair and I felt I was being discriminated against and would look at taking CASA to the Equal Opportunities Tribunal for discrimation.

I got a phone call from CASA in Canberra around 8 days later.

 

The guy was very pleasant and we had a discussion about it for a while. Basically his explanation to me as why it is unconditional is that your GP is not across the specifics of aviation medicine and would possibly not know if any of the issues would be worse in a aviation environment. It was a reasonable argument on his part. This has never been explained in their paperwork

 

I then complained about Avmed and their totally illogical approach to Class 2 medical sign offs. he then said to me the new Basic Class 2 medical that the DAME signs off on is not challenged by CASA and basically gets rubber stamp approval from them. this is the one where the DAME can sign you off directly.

 

I said maybe 20% of DAME have done what is required the rest are not interested and he told me its now around 50% have taken it up.

 

The upshot is that if you can find one of these DAME who will look at your specific case and with a logical level head will sign off on you then you are good to go.

 

He emailed me a list of DAME around Brisbane who can do the sign off.

 

I am having a Cardiac echo tomorrow and also a stress test. IF I pass the stress test tomorrow there should be no reason why I can not get the medical sign off. I will be heading to a local DAME who I KNOW is a sensible doctor and armed with these results should hopefully get the basic class 2 medical. Then I can go for my RPL

 

We will see I suppose what happens but it all hinges on the stress test tomorrow. I had a issue just over a week ago where I thought I may have had a ticker issue and went to the hospital bt it turned out to be fluid between my left lung and the chest wall. The hospital rang my cardiologist to get my records and then they have come back to me asking if I would come in and do the echo and stress test. Mind you its a expensive exercise. $410 for the echo and $220 for the stress test and then the specialist appt in the afternoon so kiss goodbye to a grand !! I will be lucky to get 30% back from my medical fund.

 

I will see what happens tomorrow

 

Mark

You’ll be lucky if you get any back. Health funds cannot legally give you rebates unless there has been an item number approved by the MBS added by the initiating doctor.

MBS item numbers can not be used for medicals. So generally speaking medicals and their associated costs are full cost to the patient.

 

If the test is done as a follow up for a previously evident medical condition then it’s legal to use an item number.

 

So depends a bit on you situation but if it’s a clear cut medical then bad luck!

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I have had a CABG so should be able to claim as its not for this Class2 its a followup from a 9 hr stay in hospital

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Yep. That’ll count.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

There is this:

 

CASA warns DAMEs about Medical Assessments - Australian Flying

 

So much for medical reform. They are now putting the frighteners on the DAMEs who can issue assessments themselves. For how long will you be able to find them?

 

 

[turboplanner]

There is this:CASA warns DAMEs about Medical Assessments - Australian Flying

So much for medical reform. They are now putting the frighteners on the DAMEs who can issue assessments themselves. For how long will you be able to find them?

I don't know how many times people have to be told that governments, both State and Federal have been offloading liability to protect taxpayer funds, before it sinks in.

 

"They" are not putting the "frighteners" on; DAMES are simply being advised of potential increased operating risks (which they are insuring for in their daily lives anyway), CASA benchmarks to protect them, key things to do to minimise the risk, and confirming CASA will take the responsibility where the DAME requests it.

 

Far from being the ogres of the world CASA are making these changes quite a few years after the rest of the transport industry, and providing a much more comfortable cushion than anyone else received.

 

Parts in the report are in italics; I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice; these are just my assessment of what the report is dealing with.

 

“Outgoing CASA Principal Medical Officer Michael Drane has warned Designated Aviation Medical Examiners (DAME) that they may be subject to liability issues should their assessment be legally challenged.”

 

Michael Drane is simply pointing out potential operating risks for DAMES following changes made after April 3 this year; he is being helpful.

 

“DAMEs needed to take care when assessing candidates for aviation medicals.”

 

He is bringing to their attention an elevated level of risk; again, helpful.

 

"………….. please remember to follow the CASA eLearning guidance and Clinical Practice Guidelines to ensure you include sufficient information when making your assessment and record it clearly.”

 

He is pointing out the main Benchmark protecting the DAME (same as complying with Australian Standards, Industry Codes of Practice, laws, and keeping a record.

 

"It’s important that you clearly note the basis for your decision and whether further monitoring is required. Remember there’s a reason certain reports are requested and your decision needs to stand up to scrutiny in settings such as the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT).

 

He is pointing out the value of preserving evidence which led to the decision, in case it is required for a Tribunal or Court to justify the decision. (Normal Industry procedure)

 

"Decisions failing in these areas may present medicolegal liabilities for the assessing doctor."

 

I have lost cases, and seen many other cases lost because no one can remember what actually happened and who did what.

 

“Up until 3 April this year, most DAMEs would perform the examination for a medical certificate, but CASA would assess the results and issue the certificate based on the DAME report”

 

This paragraph should have been first, instead of buried down the page, but points out that before April 3, liability for the report rested with CASA.

 

“Under reforms instigated by CASA Director of Aviation Safety Shane Carmody this year, all DAMEs can now do the assessment themselves………….”

 

This is a nice way of saying “You are now on your own”

 

“……but still have the option to refer the candidate to CASA if they wish.”

 

This is an option to assist a DAME with a difficult or borderline case, and also gives the change a helpful soft landing.

 

 

[Bennyboy320]

Hence the advantage of only flying RAAus max 600kg, once you reach 75 you have to see the doctor to maintain your drivers license, and for goodness sake don’t open up a can of worms & mention anything about flying, it’s beyond their pay grade & they don’t have a need to know, keep it simple, anyway that’s my plan.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Well I will let you know then about what happens with me if I can get in to see the DAME next week. I passed my stress test no problem..just waiting for the cardiac echo report which I believe was fine should be here tomorrow. Armed with those 2 and the latest full blood test results I have that should be enough for him to make his "decision"..and I think it should be in my favour as my normal GP and my cardiologist see no drama. What I like about the DAME doing the actual sign off is usually they actually look at things methodically and logically not like the Avmed current record is which seems to be a lot of no rythme or reason at times

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Well today is a great day :) I passed the basic class 2 medical today and have the licence in my hand. The DAME looked at my situation and medical history both previous and current and said not a problem infact he was very happy with the way I have modified what I do in my daily life to be in the condition I am. The weight that I have lost and the way I look after my diabeties. The one caviat is to keep up the good monitoring of my type 2 diabeties which I do quite a lot anyway. The heart stuff he was very happy with and of course the stress test and echo tests proved all that. Commonsense reigns supreme when taken out of the hands of Avmed. For me the basic class 2 medical road has worked and worked well and I am so happy at the moment about this. I can now go for my RPL and in 5 weeks time when I am over at the Rans open day I can now spend my time going over all the bits and pieces and fly the S21 Outbound. When Mabel is finished and I sell the girlfriend I will then order the kit for the S21....if I like it of course when I have a fly of it. From what I have seen and researched it should be just exactly what I am after. Finally a aircraft with some room that comes in at 820kg that only has 2 places. I am excited :)