Queensland plane crash survivor cannot walk, facing lawsuits one year on

[SSCBD]

Anyone know what the insurance problem is here?

 

One year after his light plane crashed on landing at a Sunshine Coast airport, Ben Berg is yet to walk, the injured passengers are taking legal action against him and his insurance won't pay out.

 

full story link

 

Queensland plane crash survivor cannot walk, facing lawsuits one year on

 

 

[Thruster88]

ATSB AO-2017-081

 

 

[turboplanner]

I guess the plaintiffs' lawyers have worked out who had the duty of care and whether it was breached.

 

ATSB have said "COG was outside permissible range for the entire flight"

 

The Insurer may have had a policy clause requiring adherence to all regulations.

 

What led to his first decision to select Runway 12, then on the advice of another pilot change to 05, then become unsettled by parachutists to the point of a non-conventional Final has not be covered very well at all by ATSB.

 

 

[bloodandiron]

Yep, the ATSB report to me is a lot of words without really saying much

 

 

[bexrbetter]

ATSB AO-2017-081

it's ok, I'll look it up....

 

Investigation: AO-2017-081 - Collision with terrain involving The Airplane Factory Sling 4, VH-BEG, Caloundra Aerodrome, Queensland, on 12 August 2017

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yep, the ATSB report to me is a lot of words without really saying much

They showed plenty though.

 

 

[Thruster88]

Yep, the ATSB report to me is a lot of words without really saying much

Maybe get your instructor to explain it before it to late

 

 

[pmccarthy]

To be legal then, you need a set of scales to weigh passengers. Probably OK at home field, but not something you would want to carry if picking pax up elsewhere. Baggage is OK, I use a small spring balance with a hook.

 

 

[facthunter]

An out of balance or overloaded plane is not airworthy and you are then just an unqualified test pilot. Weight and balance is a 100% pass mark exam normally. Why do you think that is?. People who hop in a plane have a reasonable expectation that the pilot is trained and operates within the rules. even if it's a RAAus plane which operates under less strict rules and maybe dispensations even. The little sign on the dash states that. It sort of means "this is not an airliner". Crashes are sad things. and people get seriously hurt or killed even...

 

You must be able to ascertain the weight is within limits I can usually get within about 5 Kgs guessing most individual people's weight. Airlines don't weigh everyone They use standard weights but you would be hard pressed justifying that if it was a mob of Sumo Wrestlers on board. Nev

 

 

[Geoff13]

I thought the report was very thorough and said plenty.

 

A lot to be learned from reading that report I would think.

 

 

[turboplanner]

To be legal then, you need a set of scales to weigh passengers. Probably OK at home field, but not something you would want to carry if picking pax up elsewhere. Baggage is OK, I use a small spring balance with a hook.

Nothing wrong with asking the pax to weigh themselves before they leave home.

 

 

[Downunder]

Is the mix of weights, fuel and associated cofg location overly complex for this aircraft? (Genuine question)

 

You need fuel in the front to counterbalance rear weight, but need weight in the rear with full fuel and front passengers only with full fuel.

 

Is it a bad design?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Is the mix of weights, fuel and associated cofg location overly complex for an aircraft of this type? (Genuine question)You need fuel in the front to counterbalance rear weight, but need weight in the rear with full fuel and front passengers only with full fuel.

Is it a bad design?

No, there are many designs where this is critical; one example was where someone decided to bring along his 15 kg tool box and placed it on the floor in front of the passenger seat in a Morgan. He lost control of the aircraft on take off and only just managed to get it on the ground without damage. Virtually none of the RA and GA aircraft can carry full fuel + full pax + full baggage. That’s for the Pilot in Command to calculate, and come up with a solution before each flight.

The perfect aircraft would have the fuel, baggage, pilot and all pax on the one CG line, but that’s not feasible, so there’s always a compromise, and on some aircraft re-balancing is required in flight by moving fuel around.

 

 

[ISA]

Hopefully this event will have a positive effect on those that fly without careful correct consideration of their legal responabiltes.

 

 

[djpacro]

Is the mix of weights, fuel and associated cofg location overly complex for this aircraft?

A Sling 4 POH (dunno if it applied to that example) that I found online clearly indicated that it was extremely easy to load outside the allowable CG range. Not too hard to take the hint from the sample loadings in that POH.

[Camel]

I'm fairly certain that if you or the aircraft don't comply with regulations insurance won't pay and after this read I'm fairly sure several regulation weren't quite right ! interesting report and very valuable this one !

 

 

[planesmaker]

Passenger weights? Just ask them, people usually know how much they weigh, except maybe children.

 

 

[facthunter]

Plus the thrill of an occasional slap over the face from a lady whose diet hasn't worked. I believe this should also (unfortunately) reduce thinking pilot's inclination to take "anyone" up with them. It can be a life destroying experience. Over many years when I make a flying decision I've applied the test "How will this look like in COURT if it goes unstruck?" it's a good test to apply. plus you should have insurance that works , OR have no actual valuables to sue for and prepared to have something hanging over you for all your life. Nev

 

 

[M61A1]

What led to his first decision to select Runway 12, then on the advice of another pilot change to 05, then become unsettled by parachutists to the point of a non-conventional Final has not be covered very well at all by ATSB.

I also have concerns about the report's focus on a slightly aft CoG, while obviously not ideal, there is virtually no discussion about the mishandled approach.

 

Looking at the images from onboard footage, thee was no way he was going to make that strip, and I have to wonder if the end result would have been the same even with a CoG with limits. Did he try to rudder it around or increase the load factor too much ?

 

While clearly an aft CoG is not ideal, as long as it isn't extreme and there is sufficient elevator authority, it actually unloads the mainplane. I think it possible that although the aft CoG may may make recovery difficult or impossible, at that altitude a stall may not be recoverable anyway, especially if the pilot instinctively pulls back or corrects with aileron.

 

I think the aft CoG may have contributed, but was probably not the cause of this event.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Given that a legal claim has been announced, we’ve probably got as close as we can get to debating the facts of this crash. I would be discussing Sling performance in general, but not in relation to a live case.

 

 

[Camel]

Given that a legal claim has been announced, we’ve probably got as close as we can get to debating the facts of this crash. I would be discussing Sling performance in general, but not in relation to a live case.

You are very correct ! But facts are facts and the fact is Sling have made an error in measurement ! The aircraft weight is under some concern and the plane was not lined up on final and was a definite bad approach ! All of these things may not have been the actual cause but an accident is usually several things that go or put wrong and it seems to me the plane itself is not the cause !

 

 

[turboplanner]

Should have saved my breath.

 

 

[M61A1]

My concern is that such reports as this are used in legal proceedings.

 

I have seen several coroners reports of a similar vein, where there are multiple contributing factors, but these are barely acknowledged and there is an unrealistic focus on one small factor.

 

 

[turboplanner]

My concern is that such reports as this are used in legal proceedings.I have seen several coroners reports of a similar vein, where there are multiple contributing factors, but these are barely acknowledged and there is an unrealistic focus on one small factor.

They can be, and they do have standing, but the lawyers on each side will usually consult experts looking for anything which will support their client’s case and may provide a rebuttal to the report, or if their client doesn’t have a prayer, go for an out of court settlement in which case none of the case details are published.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Tells me once again there are planes out there claiming to be something they are not.

 

I don't understand the insurance side of it, people make mistakes in cars everyday and cause crashes, the insurances companies don't tell them to nick off.