RA Aus and landing fees

[turboplanner]

Grass cutting at 1/2 to 1 day would cost approx $250. - $500 x about 5 cuts per year with a volunteer on the tractor.

 

 

[Jim McDowall]

Maybe the ATSB investigation into a glider collision on the airport has spooked the Council? Many rural councils don't collect the fees as the costs outweigh the income. If they want to get an idea of who is using the airport a few CCTV cameras could help answer that but then they would have to pay someone to monitor the feeds.

 

Airports are community infrastructure in the main originally paid for by the Australian taxpayer and transferred to councils under the ALOP by the Feds so the local community could pay for the maintenance. Just like roads and bridges, for which no usage charge is levied airports are community infrastructure which communities find really useful in times of natural disaster. A local airport well loved can also help stimulate the local economy (eg "you never get a second chance to make a first impression"). In my experience local councils take aim at airports because of the usually negative bottom lines as it is an easy target with very little political impact.

 

 

[robinsm]

Local airports are seen by councils as a source of ready free money when they are sold. Users etc dont matter, its all about the bottom line these days. Our local airport is now privately owned and it o-pened a can of worms with the purchaser trying to gouge money out of hanger owners etc for services alraedy in place, and access to runways. The airport is falling apart, looks like crap and does not have a good feel any more. Try suggesting local councils sell football feilds and sports grounds and see how far you get. Greed pure and simple.

 

 

[stevron]

My last comment on this matter, I pay and contribute to my local air facility , I am involved with our local flying club , I am a member of an other flying club , keeping this in mind , I am contributing to the maintenance and financial operation of these air facilities. My piont is, I am paying at my home airport facilities either by cash support or my free labour , payments like the local council for hangar rates and ground lease fees which appears to rise and rise yearly and an annual airport landing fee ,not to mention Air services fees.

 

Now it’s expected that I pay for someone else’s facility ,that’s double dipping.

 

I simply say ; You pay for yours and I pay for mine we are even .

 

 

[old man emu]

One has to question the morals of people who avoid a relatively small fee by either falsely identifying the aircraft they are using, or not identifying themselves at all.

 

Not only are they robbing the operator of an airfield of the where-with-all to keep the airfield in operation, they are tarnishing the character of every other pilot using the airport.

 

Perhaps there should be a push from the members to have RAAus cancel the pilot certificate of persons guilty of fraudulent conduct of this type.

 

However, if a pilot is going to engage in fraudulent activity, can anyone expect the same person to worry about the currency of their certificate? Who is going to catch them out?

 

OME

 

 

[turboplanner]

My last comment on this matter, I pay and contribute to my local air facility , I am involved with our local flying club , I am a member of an other flying club , keeping this in mind , I am contributing to the maintenance and financial operation of these air facilities. My piont is, I am paying at my home airport facilities either by cash support or my free labour , payments like the local council for hangar rates and ground lease fees which appears to rise and rise yearly and an annual airport landing fee ,not to mention Air services fees.Now it’s expected that I pay for someone else’s facility ,that’s double dipping.

I simply say ; You pay for yours and I pay for mine we are even .

I pay for electricity in my home; I travel and pay a Motel which uses part of that payment to pay for the electricity I use there.

 

No problem with your argument if you only fly at Albury.

 

But you pay to fly into any airfield which has a fee system.

 

 

[stevron]

It’s been fun , I am finish with this how no more comments from me

 

 

[frank marriott]

One has to question the morals of people who avoid a relatively small fee by either falsely identifying the aircraft they are using, or not identifying themselves at all.Not only are they robbing the operator of an airfield of the where-with-all to keep the airfield in operation, they are tarnishing the character of every other pilot using the airport.

 

Perhaps there should be a push from the members to have RAAus cancel the pilot certificate of persons guilty of fraudulent conduct of this type.

 

However, if a pilot is going to engage in fraudulent activity, can anyone expect the same person to worry about the currency of their certificate? Who is going to catch them out?

 

OME

I think you missed the point. I was not referring to RAA pilots, why would they anyway. If you are not aware of this rife behaviour you need to get away from the coast for a while.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I think you missed the point. I was not referring to RAA pilots, why would they anyway. If you are not aware of this rife behaviour you need to get away from the coast for a while.

Same applies to GA smart alecs who use a false call sign or don’t call at deserted fields. It might surprise some people who travel out from the cities just how visible you are within the radio range in terms of departure and arrival times, particularly when call sign AAA leaves point A and three hours later call sign BBN lands at point B exactly on a typical cruise time

 

 

[spacesailor]

Perhaps a system of Landing Fee,s should be based on the vehicle WEIGHT.

 

I cannot see a Powered Parachute or a Nanotrike impacting a grass strip like a couple of tons of turbine 8 seater aircraft.

 

If said aircraft weighs less then half a ton it should pay less than a standard aircraft.

 

That said the grass should be cropped shorter for the smaller wheels.

 

so maybe Im wrong again. LoL

 

spacesailor

 

 

[old man emu]

I think you missed the point. I was not referring to RAA pilots, why would they anyway. If you are not aware of this rife behaviour you need to get away from the coast for a while.

What I meant was that RAAus can only act against persons holding a certificate issued by them. I don't doubt that CASA licensed pilots are also doing the immoral thing.

 

I made the assumption that the majority of pilots who are members here are only RAAus certificated, not CASA licensed as well. Therefore the idea of cancelling certificates would be easier to push for by the members of this forum. It would be tougher to get such a penalty established by CASA.

 

I have no doubt that a lot of duffing goes on back o' Bourke.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Self Administering Associations usually have compliance and enforcement procedures with sanctions to control behaviour ranging from advice, warning, licence suspension for various periods (1 month, 6 months, 12 months, permanent), with natural justice via an appeals process. This was one of the things RAA Inc never got around to, and nor has RAA Ltd.

 

With that system in place the airfield can advise RAA of non payment and RAA can take care of it with no need to disclose personal details of the offender.

 

 

[frank marriott]

I made the assumption that the majority of pilots who are members here are only RAAus certificated, not CASA licensed as wel

I have no idea on that, but I can say that of the RAA Pilots I know in my area quite a few are also CASA qualified (at various levels from RPL to ATPL). If I was pushed to guess I would say in the vicinity of 30% but that is just off the top of my head.

 

 

[kaz3g]

I have had a thought , a revaluation really . Let’s have all VH planes pay a yearly Reg fee, license fee and share this money around the needy airport operators.that would solve the problem . VH plane operators currently save money by not paying registration fees like we do in RA , so let’s collect $ 280 a year licence fee and say another $150 registration fee , hell , what a great idea. Correct me if I am wrong , but fuel companies own petrol pumping equipment. Well the do around here anyway

And how wwould all the RA registered aircraft then make their fair and equitable contribution to the costs of those struggling airport owners?. Your rego fees go to running your Association so you can have the benefit of flying with lower licence standards, low cost maintenance and a driver licence medical.

 

Perhaps a ban on bringing private fuel onto these airports so you have to pay the 50% higher cost of avgas and the operator gets a return from higher fuel sales? Or perhaps the PPR for any non-GA aircraft using the facility?

 

I’m not actually supporting such measures, Stevron, but a divide and conquer approach doesn’t wash with me, either.

 

Kaz

 

 

[facthunter]

Avgas is levied to provide money to run CASA etc. When you use mogas which is levied for road related cost you are still contributing to roads but not using them. Perhaps that fact could be used to get a grant paid to aerodrome operators? AND the RAAus.

 

No reasonable person would expect someone privately to just offer their aerodrome for free to all who choose to use it. There's considerable maintenance and the insurance cost would be significant also. Many request /require prior notification of an arrival if they are managed privately. That's fair enough also...Nev

 

 

[KRviator]

No reasonable person would expect someone privately to just offer their aerodrome for free to all who choose to use it. There's considerable maintenance and the insurance cost would be significant also. Many request /require prior notification of an arrival if they are managed privately. That's fair enough also...Nev

Private? No. I agree, you should chip in a few bob, maybe $5/t MTOW? But council-owned? Most definitely I expect to use it for free. I pay my rates. The airfield is just another public facility in my eyes, no different to the footy oval I don't kick a ball around on, or the boat ramps I don't use.It would cost me nothing to launch a tinny at any of the dozens of council-owned-and-maintained boat ramps across the shire area, but fly into Warnervale for an hour of circuits and that's nearly $300 in landing fees for the privilege. You tell me how my 600Kg RAAus bird causes that much damage to the runway? Then it's another $100 for the 'privilege' of refuelling on council land. Now they've gone PPR to make sure they get their cut. IT works out cheaper to fly to Bankstown or even Archerfield than it is to go to Warnervale.

 

Anyone want to buy an RV-9?

 

 

[facthunter]

I've never advocated Council control works with much at all. Councils are generally an outstanding example of the failure of the democratic process. It's about the worst situation you can experience. No certainty whatsoever. There's plenty of boat ramps you have to pay to use. and large car parks that are associated with them. I don't see why they should be council provided for free either. A Boat isn't usually a necessity, nor is a sport plane if one is honest. But they don't require a very sophisticalted airfield either. Aerodromes do have other community functions though. Medical emergencies fire fighting and supporting industries as well as motels and hotels getting more customers by air and events.etc Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

I am in the assumption that CASA aircraft do not have to have there registered numbers on said plane,

 

why do RAA insist on their planes showing rego numbers.

 

Airfield manager, s only have to take note of the rego, to put in a claim, unlike CASA aircraft without the sign writing.

 

My aircraft spotting is much harder with missing registration on their wings.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[robinsm]

And how wwould all the RA registered aircraft then make their fair and equitable contribution to the costs of those struggling airport owners?. Your rego fees go to running your Association so you can have the benefit of flying with lower licence standards, low cost maintenance and a driver licence medical.Perhaps a ban on bringing private fuel onto these airports so you have to pay the 50% higher cost of avgas and the operator gets a return from higher fuel sales? Or perhaps the PPR for any non-GA aircraft using the facility?

 

I’m not actually supporting such measures, Stevron, but a divide and conquer approach doesn’t wash with me, either.

 

Kaz

Sounds good but because operators do not provide mogas at aerodromes and some engines use it (2 strokes etc) I think discrimination etc would raise its head.

 

 

[robinsm]

I came to an agreement with the private operator of our local airfield of a fixed yearly sum, I also used to pay the council a fixed yearly sum per aircraft to use the airport. The cost was reasonable and allowed us to fly and went towards the airport maintanence. I have never objected to paying "reasonable" landing fees but some councils and operators get greedy and thats why people start to bypass fees. Set it reasonable and they will come...

 

 

[coljones]

Private? No. I agree, you should chip in a few bob, maybe $5/t MTOW? But council-owned? Most definitely I expect to use it for free. I pay my rates. The airfield is just another public facility in my eyes, no different to the footy oval I don't kick a ball around on, or the boat ramps I don't use.It would cost me nothing to launch a tinny at any of the dozens of council-owned-and-maintained boat ramps across the shire area, but fly into Warnervale for an hour of circuits and that's nearly $300 in landing fees for the privilege. You tell me how my 600Kg RAAus bird causes that much damage to the runway? Then it's another $100 for the 'privilege' of refuelling on council land. Now they've gone PPR to make sure they get their cut. IT works out cheaper to fly to Bankstown or even Archerfield than it is to go to Warnervale.

 

Anyone want to buy an RV-9?

Then, there are those of us who feel that providing free and low cost facilities including free airtime to cashed up football and cricket clubs is an outrage. Footy wanted a bigger stadium in Parramatta so the adjacent swimming pool was kicked to the kerb. Why should boat owners get a free kick particularly when they not only clog the foreshore but the owners also clog up the streets with barely used trailers. Just pay the bloody fees!

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

I was quite happy to pay an Annual Fee at the airports I used, and a casual fee at those I didn't visit that much. Councils have difficulty with "donations" where there's no fee stipulated for RAA and it tends to be coded to something Miscellaneous and news of your honesty may not make it back to the airport management.

 

As for giving false call signs - has happened to me - someone was flying in/out of Archerfield Mon/Fri using my call sign. I explained to Avdata that it wasn't me, no doubt they caught up with them. I hired my plane to a grazier with fuel card, and I started to get fuel bills, en-route & landing fees - fortunately the re-fueller put the aircraft rego on the bill and it turned out he "lent" my card to his charter operator son. A member of our club regularly did the same thing, but being local they tracked him down and banned him from landing there without prior notification. CCTV & recordings have changed the ability to cheat.

 

As for the costs of running an airport - our little grass strip at Childers costs the Club about $700 in fuel, plus the value of a ride-on, paint and volunteer hours. The Council puts in about $5,000 a year and gets about $110 in lease fees, nil landing. Less than a third of the Club members pay rates there. In Springsure the Council sold the footy field to the Footy Club, the other sports pay rental, including the Show Society on the Showgrounds.

 

 

[ave8rr]

I am in the assumption that CASA aircraft do not have to have there registered numbers on said plane,why do RAA insist on their planes showing rego numbers.

Airfield manager, s only have to take note of the rego, to put in a claim, unlike CASA aircraft without the sign writing.

 

My aircraft spotting is much harder with missing registration on their wings.

 

spacesailor

All GA aircraft require the registration to be displayed on the aircraft. Underwing markings are not required nor are they now on RAAus registered aircraft. CASA Registered / Certified aerodromes require an annual inspection. This is costly. Last aerodrome where I was the ARO the fee was around 10K. Not sure boat ramps etc have this requirement?

I can assure you ALL that there are are alot of hidden costs in running an airfield. More so if available for night ops.

 

 

[Jim McDowall]

Maybe some direct lobbying from RA-Aus to the various LGA's would be of assistance. Recent discussions with a local council revealed that they did not know that RA-Aus aircraft made up about 40% of the Australian aircraft fleet.Up to that point they thought it was all about Rex, Virgin and Qantas plus the emergency fleet of helos and firefighters. After spending $30mill on new sports facilities (in an area where the demographics means that participation rates are falling faster than the national average!) and another couple on new boat ramps the $100,000 budget for the aifield looks a bit thin particularly given the 5-10 movements per day by RFDS.

 

 

[ev17ifly2]

Of late many councils and shires view their airstrips as both a financial and legal liability and there are consultants out there who perpetuate that myth. Unlike a "grey nomad" a touring pilot and their passenger(s) bring little else with them apart from their wallets. As a result they tend to spend a bit more in the district than your typical terrestrial tourist. A few (not many) councils have woken up to this fact and actively encourage us to stay and spend.