Fees to fly

[stevron]

Food for thought

 

RAAus membership / authority to fly $245

 

Craft registration $155

 

Total $400

 

Gliding after primary costs

 

GFA memberships $300

 

Club membership $250

 

Annual flight review $100 not biennial

 

Tug fee between $20 to $50 per launch

 

Total $650 I do not know the cost of reg

 

GA

 

After the primary costs

 

Lic nil cost

 

Reg Nil cost

 

Plus government free funding support

 

Through CASA

 

Just saying , interesting though

 

 

[Geoff_H]

My basic Class 2 medical just cost me $330. Now that I am 70, this could be each year! None get away cheap.

 

 

[stevron]

I did not include medicals as they vary so much PPL , RPL, GFA , RA Aus.

 

Plus this side of flying is contentious as I do not know if it made flying safer as people fly with vary medicals from basic to more controlled.

 

 

[Geoff_H]

Sure, but using your driver's licence foris a lot less expensive. But your point is well worth your mentioning it. Appreciate your effort.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

My basic Class 2 medical just cost me $330. Now that I am 70, this could be each year! None get away cheap.

Wow.. Up 'ere, it is every year when one is over 50... And every second one requires an ECG Cardiogram.. Bummer insurance won't cover it.

 

 

[Geoff_H]

Where are you located?

 

 

[Geoff_H]

Sorry, just read profile. I see that you are in Great Britain. Age is getting to me lol

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Yes - Ol Blighty - but about to go through the rigormorale of applying for an ASIC. And prepare to do the Aussie PPL based on my EASA PPL based on my (now defunct) Ausse GFPT...

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Wow.. Up 'ere, it is every year when one is over 50... And every second one requires an ECG Cardiogram.. Bummer insurance won't cover it.

Why do you need an EASA licence?. The medical for a UK one is much, much easier now.

 

If a Basic Med costs $330 you may as well get a Class 2. They are good for 2 years after age 40: Classes of medical certificates

 

 

[Geoff_H]

I could not agree more. The expense that made the cost around double was that my doctor was not equipped to test my eyes. She asked me to go to an optometrist. The optometrist charged $160 for an eye examination for a heavy vehicle licence. I have a licence that the medical does not all ifr flying, no endorsement so no worries . No night flying, well I think that my night vision is not as good when one gets older, so not really an issue. Biggie is aerobatic flying. Something I was about to start, but next year I can do a dame exam and then get all privileges back.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Can we all stop using the term "privileges", please. A "privilege" is an unearned right.

 

As our Australian government is not (nominally anyway) a totalitarian one, you have a right to do anything that doesn't impinge on the rights of others, subject to some regulation or restriction to keep that to a minimum. Getting a pilot licence involves jumping through quite a few hoops. Once successfully done, you have a right to aviate.

 

Must be the convict mindset that is all too prevalent here. Don't let the enemy govern the language.

 

 

[Geoff_H]

Point taken. I don't know what other words to use

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

stevron, "registration" of gliders in the GFA costs over $200.

 

The requirement to join a club is of questionable legality (called "third party forcing" by ACCC) and after spending the best part of $1000 or more (some clubs have $600 annual membership) each year BEFORE flying you get to enjoy being told what to do and how to do it by a not very intelligent bunch of pretty nasty people. CASA at least is usually a long way away, as far as day to day ops are concerned.

 

Experimental VH reg is the way to go.

 

 

[Hargraves]

Spot on Mike i,m nobodys (subject) and I don,t recognise superiors only seniors.

 

 

[Markproa]

I did a Basic Class 2 medical last week and my GP bulk billed me so my all up medical cost was $10 to CASA.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Why do you need an EASA licence?. The medical for a UK one is much, much easier now.<snip>

A couple of reasons:

 

• The UK no longer issues UK-only PPLs; I was issued a JAA PPL which had to be converted to an EASA PPL. If one had a CAA (UK) PPL, then it is perpetual, but as I understand ti will not be recognised for flight in an EASA aircraft.
   
   
  
• The UK Medical only applies to Annex II aircraft (as well as other sub-ICAO types). For the UK, this means it only covers your UK PPL (no longe available for new issue) or the NPPL (sort of RAA ticket). Yes, I can fly Vans and other permit types, and yes, I can fly to France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany and I think Austria without doing extra paperwork and yes, with certain suitably equipped and approved permit aircraft, we can now fly at night and IFR, and we can now hire them out for reward as well as train in them, but if I want to fly on old spam-can PA28, I will need my EASA licence and I will need my EASA Class 2 medical
   
   
  

 

 

 

Of course, it beckons the question - why not just move to permit (RAA equiv) flying? Good question - at the moment, I like the ability to take up a PA32.. Permit aircraft are restricted to 4 seaters... Of course, I like the ability to do it.. I can count the number of times I have actually done it in the last 12 months on the thumb of my hand. So the question is more, should I cross over to permit-land (now, a UK medical for a NPPL is, I think=, a GP declaration; if I go for an EASA LAPL (Light Aircraft Pilots Licence), then the medical is the same as a class 2 minus the ECG and I think it lasts a little longer (at my age).

 

Whenever I got my medical here, I used to get my Aus class 2 as well.. Our AME gave up on it due to the admin burden that was introduced - another notch in the "let's make things more difficult and expensive for absolutely no value add"... Happens everywhere, unfortunately...

 

 

[kgwilson]

These are the UK rules for self declaration of medical fitness

 

Self-declaring your medical fitness using the Pilot Medical Declaration

 

A medical declaration (from 25th August 2016) is an affirmation of your medical ‘fitness to fly’ and may be used to exercise the privileges of a:

 

 

• EU Part-FCL Private Pilot Licence (PPL) to fly non-EASA aircraft;
   
   
  
• EU Part-FCL LAPL to fly non-EASA aircraft;
   
   
  
• National PPL (NPPL);
   
   
  
• UK PPL; and
   
   
  
• A UK Commercial Pilot Licence (CPL) Balloons that is restricted to commercial operation and the privileges of a UK PPL (Balloons and Airships).
   
   
  

 

 

It is valid for flying with up to three passengers on board and in aircraft less than 5700 kg Maximum Take-Off Mass (MTOM). The privileges of an Instrument Meteorological Conditions (IMC) or Night Rating - assuming colour safety has previously been checked by an AME - may be exercised on non-EASA aircraft, but not a full Instrument Rating (IR). Subject to certain exemptions from theEASA Aircrew Regulation, the declaration is only valid for non-EASA aircraft. It is not automatically valid outside of the UK since it is not an internationally-recognised medical standard, unless permission has been granted by the foreign state you are flying in.

 

 

 

The standard you must meet for the medical declaration is the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) Group 1 Ordinary Driving Licence (ODL) and you must not suffer or have suffered from a list of specified medical conditions.

 

 

 

To fly EASA aircraft (for example common general aviation (GA) types such as Cessna 152 or Piper PA28) on an EU Part-FCL Private Pilot’s Licence (PPL), you need an internationally recognised Class 2 medical certificate obtained from an aeromedical examiner (AME).

 

 

 

If you want to fly EASA aircraft using an EU Part-FCL Light Aircraft Pilot’s Licence (LAPL) you will need a LAPL medical certificate. The LAPL medical assessment can be conducted either by your GP or an AME and the LAPL medical certificate is valid throughout the EU.

 

 

So what happens after BREXIT? Does the UK resume issuing UK PPLs thereby requiring only the self declaration medical. They won't be issuing EASA licences as far as I can see as they will no longer be part of the EU. At present you can fly a PA28 or C172 etc on a UK PPL (self declaration medical) in the UK AFAIK or with an EU PPL (Class 2 required).

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Ahh yes - I forgot the CAA relatively recently went to the self-declaration route. As I (too occasionally lately) fly EASA aircraft, I don't keep up with the national reg as it is part of the UK ANO, which only applies to annex II aircraft. I hadn't even heard of the change to the LAPL medical requirements (EASA is slowly relieving itself of "harmonisation" aviation safety regulation, which they originally took to mean harmonising with CAT/RPT regulations rather than meaning reaching the same proportionate to risk safety regulation for GA across the EU's 27 countries).

 

Re Brexit and EASA. First a little background.. The EASA, screwed up its harmonisation charter, and for EASA aircraft, they were mandating all sorts of silly things for GA aircraft - to the point they wanted to mandate black boxes cockpit voice recorders on most GA aircraft... As an example, an aircraft has to be registered/associated with a CAMO (Continuing Airworthiness Maintenance Organisation) and in addition to its normal maitenance schedule, has to have an Annual Review Cerrtificate (ARC). I am not actually sure what an ARC does that an annual doesn't, except increase the paperwork required. Part M was thrust upon an unsuspecting GA community which effectively doubled the fixed maintenance costs of aircraft. Coupled with shady protection practices in which, for example, the Robinson R66 had its EASA certification withheld until they had logged some 1bn (or million, can't remember) hours of hassle free rotoring of a specific torque bolt - that was, thankfully dropped I think due to the threat of taking EASA to the European Court of Justice. Of course, EASA decided they didn't lijke to be held to account and Robinson's cost to certify their copter turned out to be about double what it should have been.

 

Closer to home, EASA decided it was taking aim at the IMC Rating in the UK (I think Aus has a similar rating, but the UK pioneered it as pilots were falling out of the sky when being caught up in unforecast weather; that had a habit of forming at great pace). Since the introduction (I think the 70s or thereabouts), the fatality rate dropped like a brick and I recall reading not too long ago no IMC fatality has been recorded by the holder of an IMCr when flying in IMC. Of course, EASA lined this one up and even though it was a UK only rating that could only be excerised in the UK, they put in a concerted effort to have it terminated. When the CAA dug their heels in, EASA came uo with the EIR (Enroute Instrument Rating) - you could use it in the cruise but not for approach or departure. Very useful in deed. As it transpired, Germany and France sided with the UK and the IR® (the latter R meaning restricted) was born, which is the IMCr and only available to UK based pilots and only can exercise their right in the UK! Go figure - so much for harmonisation.

 

Despite all of the shennanigans and ocmplaints to the EC/EP, Patrick Gordeaux (sp?) was able to run his reign of destroying GA unfettered. He required twins of any size to be restricted to licensed airfields, required crazy maintenance regimes. Finally, France dug their heels in, and in their gallic way (something the UK could use a dose of occasionally), said "non!" They started not complying, which forced the EC to look at what was going on and they finally allowed Gordeaux to step down and enter Patryk Ky. Things have started to return to "normality", but not before it has decimated GA (manufacturing held well thanks to US and most manufacturers waiting until Gordeaux's departure to start certifying for EASA again rather than run under national permits).

 

The result - a lot of hacked off pilots in the UK, many of whom openly stated, despite their philosophical stance to remain in Europe, voted to leave in their droves. A few with direct financial interests to remain in Europe were vocal remainers - but many - including those with sizeable business interests were out.

 

So, the question on life after EASA - the CAA no longer has the technical where-with-all to be a regulator and to recruit and train the staff is a mamoth task - to my knowledge they haven't started down that route as they have publicly stated we expect to remain a member of EASA (other non-EU countries, e.g Iceland are). That would mean we have it for a while, but it is better (e.g. Part M Lite); Medicals no longer require ECGs after 40 (a CAA requirement) and only once every two years over 50. They even introduced an aerobatic rating, which I am for as people were deciding they could spin or barrell roll without instruction - many coming off the worse for it (or at least needing a change of undies). So we will be EASA bound for a while - the difference is we won't have the same power to block dumb moves because some insipid beauracrat of some GA-unfriendly country decides to dig their heels in.

 

 

[Geoff_H]

Just did my Class 2 with a DAME. Cost me $50 less than a basic class 2.  And I can again fly at night and do aerobatics.  I only had one examination, not one with an optometrist and one from a doctor.  Won't do the Basic Class 2 again.