My forced landings need work!

[Astroguy]

My forced landings need working on! Video link below.

 

I am flying an Ikarus c 42 LSA and at 42 hours logged total.... I need my forced landings to be improved.

 

I am starting them from a low altitute of 1,200 feet and am finding that I'm coming short most of the time.

 

Any tips for me?

 

Dave

 

 

 

[Downunder]

I had some similar issues where I was coming up short too.

 

I moved my aim point to around the "centre" of where I wanted to land, not the start.

 

Then I could use flaps, side slipping and other energy absorbing techniques when I was 100% sure I would reach my target/landing area to wash off speed/momentum.

 

 

[Astroguy]

right... you can always spill excess energy but you cannot add energy with a dead engine.I

 

Thanks.... loads of practice coming but I will move my aim point....good and simple tip.

 

 

[Nightmare]

I thought you were a little quick to apply your flaps. My aircraft has 2 glide configurations: No flaps (72kts), and 1 stage of flaps (60-65kts). The flaps steepen the approach so I'd apply them when you're close to your landing area. Talk to your instructor about this if it concerns you.

 

 

[Astroguy]

Rodger that... Also considering a true engine out would have far greater drag therefore a worse glideslope... I will be working on coming in higher. Thanks very much! Dave

 

 

[Nightmare]

Rodger that... Also considering a true engine out would have far greater drag therefore a worse glideslope... I will be working on coming in higher. Thanks very much! Dave

There may be others that would disagree with me, but I don't think there would be any noticeable extra drag with the engine being out. Those props are there as drag when they are spinning. That's probably why we learn and practice our forced landing with the engine at idle.

[Astroguy]

Below is a link to Trent Palmer youtube.... I watched it few weeks back when I was working my forced landings... its a bit long but worth watching...

 

thanks for the post.... see vid below

 

 

 

[facthunter]

A few basic rules for Forced landings.

 

Over shoot until you are absolutely sure of making the field. Aim further in than normal.. Better to hit the far fence at walking speed than the near one flying.. A long final into wind is not a good plan. Remember you won't know how high you are with much accuracy as you don't know the height of the terrain you are over unless it's the familiar aerodrome you are used to and there you are kidding yourself, if that's the only place you practice.. Keep the field in sight. Sometimes a stopped engine is "cleaner' than a turning one. Nice to know what your plane does in reality though.

 

If you have the place to yourself perhaps cover the altimeter and fly watching your designated place to land. It should have no familiar features that you normally use in your circuit to aid your circuit planning. Have an alternate place if it turns out to be unsuitable Ditch or SWER (single wire earth return) electricity supply. Pretty much ALWAYS force land into wind if you can. Less roll and energy to dissipate if thing s go wrong. Have seat belt quite tight also. Fuel off ,switches and brakes OFF door unlatched etc. If someone knows exactly where you are all the better.. Hold the nosewheel off the ground as long as you can and keep the weight off it as long as you can.. You don't know what the surface is like and one rabbit hole can wipe it off.. Nev

 

 

[Astroguy]

This is a nice chunk of information. It is a short and sweet for landing do's and don'ts. Like I said earlier it is nice the people take the time to shate their collective knowledge.

 

Thanks

 

DaveP

 

 

[cooperplace]

gee, do you really need to practice forced landings over that tiger country? Coward that I am, I practice in a place that is much more benign if I had a real engine failure

 

 

[Astroguy]

Right it isn't ideal for sure. Trying to find a place that isn't covered in windmills or has cattle all over it is getting to be tougher and tougher. Sometimes I just pretend a certain area is a potential Landing Zone even though it isn't really. As I fly about and look for potential landing zones as I'm flying there are times that you can't even think to find anything other than Treetops

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Right it isn't ideal for sure. Trying to find a place that isn't covered in windmills or has cattle all over it is getting to be tougher and tougher. Sometimes I just pretend a certain area is a potential Landing Zone even though it isn't really. As I fly about and look for potential landing zones as I'm flying there are times that you can't even think to find anything other than Treetops

All of my own real forced landings have been over territory in Englands's green and pleasant land.'. . .

 

I have always been able to find something 'reasonable' on which to land. . . The field full of Prize Dairy cows, during the last UK Foot and mouth disease outbreak was a bit of a bugger, though. . .but, luckily I managed ( By Pure unadulterated panic ) to navigate a path between the cows and not hit any of them. . . .HOWEVER. . if the friendly farmer had known that my departure airfield was right next door to a farm with severe Foot and Mouth disease, and that the Min of Ag mdae us all drive into the Airfield over a bed of straw impregnated with various chemicals. . .he would have had a sense of humour failure and set fire to our plane. . . .

 

Reason for FL ?. . Blown ignition coil. . .2 plugs / points - single ignition. . .

 

 

[facthunter]

Unless you have a very reliable plane don't fly over what you can't land on, when ever possible. It's not only engine failure that forces you to land, either .You could have a snake in the plane or a fire or starting to feel sick due food poisoning etc.. Nev

 

 

[Astroguy]

Unless you have a very reliable plane don't fly over what you can't land on, when ever possible. It's not only engine failure that forces you to land, either .You could have a snake in the plane or a fire or starting to feel sick due food poisoning etc.. Nev

Correct

.. good point about the different reasons for forced Landings. My rental has a very reliable 4 stroke 4 cylinder but no I was not thinking about illness or snakes.

 

 

[Astroguy]

All of my own real forced landings have been over territory in Englands's green and pleasant land.'. . .I have always been able to find something 'reasonable' on which to land. . . The field full of Prize Dairy cows, during the last UK Foot and mouth disease outbreak was a bit of a bugger, though. . .but, luckily I managed ( By Pure unadulterated panic ) to navigate a path between the cows and not hit any of them. . . .HOWEVER. . if the friendly farmer had known that my departure airfield was right next door to a farm with severe Foot and Mouth disease, and that the Min of Ag mdae us all drive into the Airfield over a bed of straw impregnated with various chemicals. . .he would have had a sense of humour failure and set fire to our plane. . . .

 

Reason for FL ?. . Blown ignition coil. . .2 plugs / points - single ignition. . .

This is very interesting... Do you mind telling me what kind of airplane and engine you were flying. As well as what altitude you had your engine out at

 

 

[Phil Perry]

All my failures were flying Ultralights. All using 2 stroke engines. 3 were mechanical / electrical failures, the first was broken crankshaft at 2,500 feet, 2 miles from base. No drama, returned to the airfield with 800 feet remaining. Second one was an ignition coil fail in the cruise, 2,000 feet, landed in a field alongside the dairy cows.( Gemini Flash 2 Trike / R503 )

 

No 3 was caused by the exhaust stack falling off the aircraft,and the engine lost power ( Rans S6 / R503 ) while I was right seat passenger. The owner asked if I would take over ( ! ) made a turn from 1300 ft, and landed comfortably off runway, on the grass beside a cross runway ( we had just departed on runway heading ) YES, I KNOW you're not supposed to turn back ! The alternative was not good, and I decided that we had more than sufficient height and a favourable wind.

 

(I asked the owner why he'd handed over control, He said "My Brain went into dialling tone mode" He had only recently qualified. This messed him up I'm afraid, and he gave up flying. Shame really.)

 

Last one was losing a cylinder in an X'Air Mk1 / R582 Blue top, on the downwind leg at the local airfield. Not difficult, no drama, apart from having to push the aircraft 800 metres to the hangar. .

 

NOW, ask me if I prefer FOUR stroke engines ?

 

 

[Astroguy]

All my failures were flying Ultralights. All using 2 stroke engines. 3 were mechanical / electrical failures, the first was broken crankshaft at 2,500 feet, 2 miles from base. No drama, returned to the airfield with 800 feet remaining. Second one was an ignition coil fail in the cruise, 2,000 feet, landed in a field alongside the dairy cows.( Gemini Flash 2 Trike / R503 )No 3 was caused by the exhaust stack falling off the aircraft,and the engine lost power ( Rans S6 / R503 ) while I was right seat passenger. The owner asked if I would take over ( ! ) made a turn from 1300 ft, and landed comfortably off runway, on the grass beside a cross runway ( we had just departed on runway heading ) YES, I KNOW you're not supposed to turn back ! The alternative was not good, and I decided that we had more than sufficient height and a favourable wind.

 

(I asked the owner why he'd handed over control, He said "My Brain went into dialling tone mode" He had only recently qualified. This messed him up I'm afraid, and he gave up flying. Shame really.)

 

Last one was losing a cylinder in an X'Air Mk1 / R582 Blue top, on the downwind leg at the local airfield. Not difficult, no drama, apart from having to push the aircraft 800 metres to the hangar. .

 

NOW, ask me if I prefer FOUR stroke engines ?

[Astroguy]

Dial tone mode... Wonderful sentiment!. Thank you for you're forced Landing stories. Sounds like you've had more than most.... Like they say with 2 smoke engines it's not if it will fail it is when it will fail. All my snow machines and chainsaws two smokers can be unreliable.

 

 

[Astroguy]

I've read somewhere that in days past a field Force Landing was part of every Pilots expectations because of engine reliability and such. But very few people have the opportunity to experience it now thankfully or not

 

 

[Nightmare]

I had an oil hose burst in flight once. Luckily, I was in the circuit on the downwind leg about to depart the circuit when it happened, smoke in the cabin and no oil pressure. I still had engine power, but I was thinking, how how long can an engine last without oil. So I reduced it to idle and landed with no power, rolled off the runway, with just a touch of power, then shut down as soon as possible. When I exited the plane, I saw the oil gushing down the nose wheel, and I realized just how serious the situation was. I am amazed how automatic my responses to the situation. It is a credit to our training.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Personally, I would give you a medal if I could mate. . . . .well done.

 

 

[Nightmare]

Personally, I would give you a medal if I could mate. . . . .well done.

Luckily, being able to put it in idle saved my engine. The emergency procedure for loss of oil pressure is to reduce the power to just enough to maintain level flight and to land as soon as possible, and to expect a total engine failure. I don't think I deserve a medal, it scared the living, you know what, out of me, and still does, and it happened over a year ago. Make sure you renew any perishable hoses, fuel, oil etc, every 2 years.

 

 

[Astroguy]

I had an oil hose burst in flight once. Luckily, I was in the circuit on the downwind leg about to depart the circuit when it happened, smoke in the cabin and no oil pressure. I still had engine power, but I was thinking, how how long can an engine last without oil. So I reduced it to idle and landed with no power, rolled off the runway, with just a touch of power, then shut down as soon as possible. When I exited the plane, I saw the oil gushing down the nose wheel, and I realized just how serious the situation was. I am amazed how automatic my responses to the situation. It is a credit to our training.

Nice to be able to pass the REAL test eh?

 

 

[TomJ]

right... you can always spill excess energy but you cannot add energy with a dead engine.IThanks.... loads of practice coming but I will move my aim point....good and simple tip.

Not experienced, having only recently passed my NPPL(M) in the UK, flying a C42. But this was drilled into me by my instructor. During my test when the examiner called engine failure, I indeed found myself too long (under 1st stage flaps). Did my best to sideslip with 2nd stage flaps, but would probably have not been able to stop before hitting the fence at the end of the field (estimating of course - we didn't actually land). I was upset with myself because I'd been nailing the forced landing approaches for a long time before the test. But after the end of the test, the examiner said that he liked how I kept working the situation, scrubbed a lot of height with the slip, and said we would have hit the fence but slowly, and that was much better than coming up short. I passed. Following his advice, I am never going to stop practicing forced landings.

 

 

[Nightmare]

Not experienced, having only recently passed my NPPL(M) in the UK, flying a C42. But this was drilled into me by my instructor. During my test when the examiner called engine failure, I indeed found myself too long (under 1st stage flaps). Did my best to sideslip with 2nd stage flaps, but would probably have not been able to stop before hitting the fence at the end of the field (estimating of course - we didn't actually land). I was upset with myself because I'd been nailing the forced landing approaches for a long time before the test. But after the end of the test, the examiner said that he liked how I kept working the situation, scrubbed a lot of height with the slip, and said we would have hit the fence but slowly, and that was much better than coming up short. I passed. Following his advice, I am never going to stop practicing forced landings.

I know a guy who quite recently had a total engine failure in flight. He did as you you said, bled off the energy until unfortunately he hit a tree, but he was so slow, he came out of it with only a cut lip. The plane was a write off though.