Why no Radio Calls?

[M61A1]

Trainee pilot perceived to be not of Australian origin transmitting over my airfield yesterday, somewhere. All I could understand was the location, not one word else. So much for the English language requirement.

I had no idea who/what/where he was, and didn't get answered, so I bugged out Lima Lima to the south for ten mins til the LZ was clear. (I hoped!)

You did well to get the location. Mostly all I can comprehend (and barely at that) are the words "traffic", "miles" and "feet" when it comes to that sort of transmission.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Absolutely concur. We have many trainee Chinese Students that fly in with AIA College in Diamond DA40s that do missed approaches, stop & goes & touch & goes. You never know which though. I can sometimes make out Diamond and Traffic but Grafton or South Grafton is almost impossible to understand. If I am on the ground I wait till they have gone as I have no idea which runway they have chosen & sometimes when I can make it out it is 18/36 which is Grafton & South Grafton is 08/26 or they say the same for either. If I am flying I bugger off & request them to report departed & even then I don't trust anything.

 

 

[440032]

You mean, perceived to be of Chinese origin? That's the latest PC buzzword.

 

 

[ev17ifly2]

A couple of years back when Mangalore was flat out some instructor had trained them to say “number one” after every call in the circuit which they then believed gave them absolute priority. That is of course if you could even understand the Changalese

 

 

[M61A1]

I couldn't even take a guess at the nationality. All I can say is that the accent is definately not Aussie, Kiwi, 'Murican, English, Scottish or any of the Eastern Bloc countries. 

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

A couple of years back when Mangalore was flat out some instructor had trained them to say “number one” after every call in the circuit which they then believed gave them absolute priority. That is of course if you could even understand the Changalese

Innovative people, instructors!

 

 

[poteroo]

Innovative people, instructors!

 

More often described as  brave,  foolhardy,  fatalistic, desperate, frazzled, fortunate, autocratic, patient, pedantic, mercenary, hourbuilders,..................... ad nauseum

 

happy days,

 

 

[kaz3g]

In the 1970s, I always thought that in the future, we'd need to alter the frequency spectrum a bit as traffic increased. . .  we were using 119.1 Unicom for ALL unspecified airstrips and this worked fine. . .and sometimes used 'SmokeNet' the CFA channel if wandering about in the WoopWoop, always someone to chat to there ( If you were lucky enough to have HF installed in your flying appliance that is. . . I actually used Ham Radio, on the 2 metre VHF FM band in some cases where I knew there was a 'Useful' Ham that I could connect with. . .but that entailed carrying a Converted Crammond Carphone taxi rig with an extra aerial, and I'm sure it was not Kosher. . .but for those of you who have actually flown in the North of WA and in far North Queensland,. . .I'm sure you understand how lonely it can be if there's no one to talk to when flying over that Glorious and mostly empty country. . . Jeeze,. . .I Really DO Miss it. . .  

Well I used to fly around in a 172 with 50 metre or so of aerial cable hanging out the window connected to a RFDS HF SSB portable. Could talk to people a looong way away, make telephone calls through the base to organise stockies or a case of coldies. Very swish for the late 70s.

 

Kaz

 

 

[kaz3g]

More often described as  brave,  foolhardy,  fatalistic, desperate, frazzled, fortunate, autocratic, patient, pedantic, mercenary, hourbuilders,..................... ad nauseum

 

happy days,

Tricky, too!

 

kaz

 

 

[kgwilson]

You mean, perceived to be of Chinese origin? That's the latest PC buzzword.

Nope, confirmed by AIA. They are all Chinese and all speak Chinglish.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Well I used to fly around in a 172 with 50 metre or so of aerial cable hanging out the window connected to a RFDS HF SSB portable. Could talk to people a looong way away, make telephone calls through the base to organise stockies or a case of coldies. Very swish for the late 70s.

Kaz

 

RFDS portable HF ?. . . very swish that.    I heard about those units but never saw one.      I hope that you didn't have to pedal it ( ! )   I used an old C180 a few times which had HF on board, and a trailing wire antenna which had to be wound out handraulically to the appropriate length for the frequency used. . . David Squirrel ( RIP ) told me that he once forgot to wind the aerial back in and landed,, wrapping it around the fence. . .  Used to have a little 'Egg Cup' device on the end  of the wire, to make it trail nice and straight. . .   Being a radio Ham back then, I found all this stuff most interesting.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Nope, confirmed by AIA. They are all Chinese and all speak Chinglish.

All of these pilots will hold at least level 4 English Language Proficiency. Why does CAsA not carry out random audits of the assessed candidates? This is a genuine Safety issue.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Think about the intent of the English language test.  I gained the impression when doing the test for the part 61 licence conversion that it was more about understanding calls that were made by people not speaking correct English.  To have to do a test when your first and only language is English is at best questionable and probably more correctly labeled stupidity but then again this is CASA so unnecessary rubbish is the norm.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Think about the intent of the English language test.  I gained the impression when doing the test for the part 61 licence conversion that it was more about understanding calls that were made by people not speaking correct English.  To have to do a test when your first and only language is English is at best questionable and probably more correctly labeled stupidity but then again this is CASA so unnecessary rubbish is the norm.

I said this when I read that it was to be introduced in the UK for ALL new licence Applicants Frank   For those whose first language is English, seemed to be a very silly thing to ask, BUT the CA UK re a Qango, so some of the Government nonsense obviously rubbed off.  Generally, CAA are one of the Better Qs.  Mainly due the fact that all of their ops staff are Pilots, Ex pilots or at least have some related aviation experience. I dunno if CASA do.    I can feel the frustration mentioned by other posters here, when it becomes apparent that international students are Obviously not that proficient in something so vital.

 

We used to have a lot of training particularly at Oxford Airport, of foreign students, mainly from Middle Eastern countries, I had n amusing attempt to contact a ld who it turned out was Iraqui, to let him know that his aeroplane was trailing smoke from the right engine. . . He did not respond, so I guessed he wasn't on Oxford's freq.  I called Oxford and identified the aircraft and later found that it was one of their students.  ( I never found what the smoke was all about though )

 

Oxford trained a heck of a lot of Argentinian students Before the Falklands war,. . .I often wondered if any of them were victims of our boys in the Harriers later whist flying their Pucaras. . .bit ironic if they had been . .

 

 

[poteroo]

. David Squirrel ( RIP ) told me that he once forgot to wind the aerial back in and landed,, wrapping it around the fence. . .  Used to have a little 'Egg Cup' device on the end  of the wire, to make it trail nice and straight.

 

We often used to forget the wind out HF aerials in PNG and left them hooked into the jungle on the 'undershoot'. Took several small funnels with us and these worked OK, but often the aerial length became too short for the set. The older HFs were not even SSB and were horrendously static'y. Very pleased when we got back to fixed HF aerials so no more manual winding them in/out. I think some had an electric winch.

 

One classic, (reportedly so, but may have been embellished over the years), incident up there involved an Aztec beating up a mining camp - the outcome being the camps HF hooked around the Aztecs wing, and the Aztecs HF trailing aerial hooked onto the camps tents. Why did pilots do this stuff?  Because we 'could' and our predecessors were even wilder so it was considered 'normal'. Not everyone survived these highly dangerous stunts.

 

happy days,

 

 

[red750]

Boeing 737 trailing an antenna from the tip of the fin.

 

 

 

[jackc]

Wonder what the legality is, trailing  a wire HF antenna from an RA registered aircraft?  An enquiring mind would like to know ?

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Wonder what the legality is, trailing  a wire HF antenna from an RA registered aircraft?  An enquiring mind would like to know ?

Cheers,

 

Jack.

 

Couldn't get away with that in the UK Jack.   Commercially produced / factory built aircraft cannot be modified once they have been approved for recreational use under the 'Permit to Fly' system here.   Occasionally, minor modifications to existing design have bee suggested, these then have to be described in detail, both to the Manufacturer, and whichever umbrella organization which looks after the type.  We have 2 in the UK, the LAA and the BMAA,  

 

If the manufacturer approves of the idea, they can advise LAA /BMAA who will look at all the engineering aspects and if they agree, a modification may be made, under strict conditions.   That sounds easy doesn't it ?. . .It's a lot more involved really !  It took 3 years to get a cabin heater, based upon a Mini car heater radiator in our syndicate plane under the BMAA.  engineering system, and this wa a home built aircraft.   In the end we had to remove it as I'd made a big Boo Boo in my calculations and when it was turned on,. . .the engine wouldn't maintain normal operating temperature !   We all flew in Ugg Boots instead.

 

I can imagine the howls of derision regarding dangling a bit of wire behind the aircraft. . ."What if it jams the controls ?"   etc.  The other point is that no one uses HF in the UK. . .when you can communicate to everywhere using 3 watts on VHF ! A flight radio telephony licence here only covers VHF too. . . Some older GA types have HF fitted, but I've never had cause to use it since I came back to the UK from Aus in 1983. . .

 

 

[jackc]

Couldn't get away with that in the UK Jack.   Commercially produced / factory built aircraft cannot be modified once they have been approved for recreational use under the 'Permit to Fly' system here.   Occasionally, minor modifications to existing design have bee suggested, these then have to be described in detail, both to the Manufacturer, and whichever umbrella organization which looks after the type.  We have 2 in the UK, the LAA and the BMAA,  

 

If the manufacturer approves of the idea, they can advise LAA /BMAA who will look at all the engineering aspects and if they agree, a modification may be made, under strict conditions.   That sounds easy doesn't it ?. . .It's a lot more involved really !  It took 3 years to get a cabin heater, based upon a Mini car heater radiator in our syndicate plane under the BMAA.  engineering system, and this wa a home built aircraft.   In the end we had to remove it as I'd made a big Boo Boo in my calculations and when it was turned on,. . .the engine wouldn't maintain normal operating temperature !   We all flew in Ugg Boots instead.

 

I can imagine the howls of derision regarding dangling a bit of wire behind the aircraft. . ."What if it jams the controls ?"   etc.  The other point is that no one uses HF in the UK. . .when you can communicate to everywhere using 3 watts on VHF ! A flight radio telephony licence here only covers VHF too. . . Some older GA types have HF fitted, but I've never had cause to use it since I came back to the UK from Aus in 1983. . .

Problem is, I am a ham radio tragic......even one of my motorcycles has HF ham radio on it, so why not my plane?  IF it can be done. ?

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Problem is, I am a ham radio tragic......even one of my motorcycles has HF ham radio on it, so why not my plane?  IF it can be done. ?

Cheers,

 

Jack.

Yeah . . .I feel your pain mate.   . .I used to do all sorts of naughty things to aeroplanes to operate non-aeronautical radio from them, even though it was not legal so to do.  My Crowning achievement was to make a simplex radio contact with a guy just North of Canberra, from 9,000 feet above Victoria, near to Michelton at the time,. . using a Phillips FM 320 UHF CB radio on 476 Megs UHF. . .  t the time, we had a repeater near Melbourne, I think it was on Mount Dandenong ( I could be wrong ) but I wanted to make a long distance transmission using 5 watts UHF FM. .. I took the radio up in a C172, and had a small Motorcycle battery to run it.  The antenna was home made and attached to a little Cone base mounted under the Right wing, ( Wasn't me who drilled the wing BTW )  I used a home made helical whip and worked the chap in ACT easily,. . .70% quieting. . .we had a chat for around 15 minutes, before the WX started to get too cloudy below,. . and this was before I'd earned my Instrument rating !   So had to cut it short. 

 

Regrettbly, this was in the very early days of UHF CB, and there weren't that many operators around.  But I gather that it becme a lot more popular afterwards and now there is an explosion of IWN modes available that you an download onto your phone and tali to the world,. .. IF you have a mobile signal. . saw an  APP called YELLO yesterday,. .. lotsa stuff around for comms mate. 

 

Phil

 

G4 OHK  ( Old Hairy Kangaroo    ). . .'

 

 

[Downunder]

Wonder what the legality is, trailing  a wire HF antenna from an RA registered aircraft?  An enquiring mind would like to know ?

Cheers,

 

Jack.

Does modern HF actually need a trailing wire? Surely antenna technology has surpassed that....

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Problem is, I am a ham radio tragic......even one of my motorcycles has HF ham radio on it, so why not my plane?  IF it can be done. ?

Cheers,

 

Jack.

See if you can get hold of an RFDS Portable HF set,. . I've not seen one of these, but they are mentioned on this thread,. . can't recall by whom though . . . Hope they don't need a trailing wire,. . on a Harley Davidono, it might be awkward. . .  ( Ell Oh Ell )

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Does modern HF actually need a trailing wire? Surely antenna technology has surpassed that....

Law of Electro Physics can't be surpassed,   you need a certain length of antenna to resonate on the desired frequency old bean, but there ARE smaller antennas you could use but their Transmit / receive efficiency is a compromise to produce a reasonable radiation resistance / efficiency / range.  ( See Bullwhips in the front of trucks )   The lower the frequency, the larger the antenna required. . .Inverse proportions and all that. . . 

 

 

[pmccarthy]

We used to throw a wire over a gum tree using a portable Traeger set with the RFDS. Ran on 12 volts, no pedals needed.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Law of Electro Physics can't be surpassed,   you need a certain length of antenna to resonate on the desired frequency old bean, but there ARE smaller antennas you could use but their Transmit / receive efficiency is a compromise to produce a reasonable radiation resistance / efficiency / range.  ( See Bullwhips in the front of trucks )   The lower the frequency, the larger the antenna required. . .Inverse proportions and all that. . . 

Not so long ago, Australian aircraft working in remote areas had to be equipped with HF and the usual aerial config was a wire from wing tip to top of fin to other wing tip, or fin to fuselage. The military developed a compact loop that could be fitted in the tail.

 

The older truck aerials had several windings to give the choice of a small range of frequencies but you had to plug into the correct one for the frequency chosen. Nearly everyone had 2020 which was the “galah” frequency for chatting. Modern mobile aerials are tunable and expensive.

 

The modulation you get on HF SSB gives an unusual character to voices being transmitted and solar flare interference can be extreme.

 

kaz