Why no Radio Calls?

[facthunter]

Just amend your flight plan in the air.

 

re the Morse code, at a decent speed it sounds more recognizable. The Dits and Dahs are more distinct.. The radio aid ID is/was SOOO slow.. made it a laborious process. Nev

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Just amend your flight plan in the air. Nev

That's easy. . .If they understand your coarse Mode. . . . .

 

 

[facthunter]

Got it … Yes, were are in France.. Nev

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Well known to locals may be unknown to others. Lately I've heard a few calls 'overhead xyz suburb'. Great but I don't have a street directory open and have no idea where that suburb is. Also recently heard 'overhead Bunnings' . Not that helpful to non locals.

A ATC meme that was floating around Cairns about ten years ago. I didn't hear the actual event but relate as it was told to me.

 

Western VFR corridor along the western boundary of city of Cairns includes a common reporting point known as the Earlville Shopping centre. Very large sprawling complex marked on the VTC. Usually easily found by locals.

 

In the sprawling car park stands a giant "statue" of a black marlin ( fish) a type of sport billfish for which the area is known.

 

It is visible from the air if you know where to look.

 

Apparently an itinerant pilot was given directions by ATC to track via Earlville shopping centre and advised to look for the "big fish on a stick!" He responded when he'd found it. Soon followed by several requests from following pilots, " Cns Approach aircraft xyz, request to track via the fish on a stick!"

 

 

[Jaba-who]

LTF if you are going into secondary airports you will use" Well known" references.. Local traffic will know where YOU are if you quote a suburb which is something. Nev

I think it's still illegal to do so. Though they have changed the rules so many time since that I have no idea for certain.

 

We had an event here in Cairns that caused the change of law to prohibit local terminology and things could only be used if they appeared named on the VTC ( if one applied to the area. As they do for pretty much all the secondary airports) or were part of a published approach path.

 

There was a conflict between a private pilot and a Qantas big aircraft that caused a separation issue, TCAS alarm, change of or maybe aborted descent of descent path for the jet etc. big issue event.

 

Essentially the Private pilot had been told to track via the "Southern Shores" a well used local term for the southern shore of the bay Cairns is built on which would have taken him perpendicular to and well away from the jet descent path. The pilot thought it meant to follow the western shore to the south which then follows the estuary of the waterway - that then tracked directly head on into the flight path of the traffic descending and landing from the south.

 

Big drama and a change of rules followed.

 

As I said I have no idea if that still applies. They change the rules so much.

 

 

[Love to fly]

The current CASA Safety Seminar talks about communication and CAR 166. Worth going to one if you get the chance. Then what is legal/illegal becomes clearer, along with what is mandatory and what is recommended.

 

AvSafety seminars

 

 

[Yenn]

I am going to one on Tuesday at Rockhampton. Will see what transpires.

 

 

[derekliston]

Back to my favourite rant. Went out to Warwick today to check out the weather, decided not to fly because a bit yucky looking. Noticed an ambulance waiting at the terminal building and realised there must be an RFDS flight inbound. When at the airfield I always have my airband receiver on and hadn’t at that point heard any inbound calls, but sure enough a Kingair arrived on 27, turned around at the end of the runway and backtracked to the terminal. Fair enough, no other traffic broadcasting, however after they loaded up and started engines a Mooney called joining crosswind then downwind and base. The Kingair rolled out to the 27 holding point without any acknowledgement that it had heard or was holding. After the Mooney landed the Kingair entered and backtracked 27 again without any calls. The only two calls it made were ‘rolling 27’ No station, no type, no reg! Next call again without any other details was ‘on climb to flight level something or other’ Now I know I’m going to hear a lot against what I am saying but I think that was surprisingly unprofessional.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Thats unusual...usually the RFDS drivers are always pretty good with calls especially with others around the circuits...well from my experiences

 

 

[Thruster88]

It is possible that one of the radios had an intermittent problem, they talk to ATC on the other so don't realise the problem.

 

Did you leave feedback,  impossible to know your radio not working if your not in a two way conversation.  

 

 

[derekliston]

Surprised me too! Once the aeroplane parked there was a lot of chatter back and forth on the airfield frequency about the patient, so I don’t really know what was going on. Possibly as you also said above, he may have also been broadcasting on area frequency, but that is no help to airfield traffic.

 

 

[Kununurra]

Certainly worth giving them some feedback.

 

As Thruster mentioned they may not even know they have a problem with their radio if that’s what occurred ?

 

Cheers 

 

 

[poteroo]

Now I know I’m going to hear a lot against what I am saying but I think that was surprisingly unprofessional.

 

Not taking sides here, but it strikes me that on one hand, the RFDS aircraft could have been a bit 'economical', or even 'forgetful' with radio calls, while the Mooney clearly overdid it with 3 separate calls to get on the ground when there was no other traffic. One of the easily overlooked things that can happen when using 2 separate COM sets is that the MIC selector isn't changed over to COM-1 or COM-2 as appropriate. So, many calls on the ground just disappear into deep space because they were made on AREA, which is often only contactable at several thousand feet above the airport elevation.  Sometimes we just need to take a deep breath, and learn from our peers omissions and errors: no sense in creating ill will over these things.

 

happy days,

 

 

[kgwilson]

Happened to me once. I gave appropriate calls but no-one heard any of them as somehow I'd got one step (25kHz) out & didn't check the display clearly enough. When I got back I thought to myself that it was amazing no-one else was around that day as the weather was not bad. It wasn't until I turned the radio on for my next flight that I noticed.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

For years I made calls that went unanswered, such as 10 miles inbound, which runway is in use? 

 

Then I discovered that because my aerial was mounted at an angle, it's transmission footprint missed everyone far ahead.

 

 

[M61A1]

How can you clutter up the airwaves when nobody is around?

Easily done when there is no-one at your location but every airstrip (some busy) for a few hundred miles can hear you.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

At Kyneton on 119.0 we hear several country strips including the parachute operations at Barwon Heads. Still, there is plenty of time to call 10 miles and the corners of the circuit. Most pilots do, and it certainly aids awareness. I guess if it got congested then the calls would diminish but at present it works really well.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Easily done when there is no-one at your location but every airstrip (some busy) for a few hundred miles can hear you.

Luckily out our way airports are far apart and tend to have different CTAFs.

 

 

[derekliston]

Easily done when there is no-one at your location but every airstrip (some busy) for a few hundred miles can hear you.

Discrete frequency at YWCK so no congestion.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

In the 1970s, I always thought that in the future, we'd need to alter the frequency spectrum a bit as traffic increased. . .  we were using 119.1 Unicom for ALL unspecified airstrips and this worked fine. . .and sometimes used 'SmokeNet' the CFA channel if wandering about in the WoopWoop, always someone to chat to there ( If you were lucky enough to have HF installed in your flying appliance that is. . . I actually used Ham Radio, on the 2 metre VHF FM band in some cases where I knew there was a 'Useful' Ham that I could connect with. . .but that entailed carrying a Converted Crammond Carphone taxi rig with an extra aerial, and I'm sure it was not Kosher. . .but for those of you who have actually flown in the North of WA and in far North Queensland,. . .I'm sure you understand how lonely it can be if there's no one to talk to when flying over that Glorious and mostly empty country. . . Jeeze,. . .I Really DO Miss it. . .  

 

What year did they start using the Y--- designator for airfields ?  

 

UK Airfields only have a 'E' locator if they are licenced, maybe it's the same in Aus ?   I dunno . . .All I ever had was the VFG, and a flipchart full of disparate strips all over the bloody place, with no radio frequency advertised,. . we just used 119.1 unless otherwise indicated. . .   AND nowadays, the map and chart NAV system has been junked in favour of GPS for flight trining,. . possibly due to the large amount of Airspace incursions,. . though you still have to carry a current paper chart by law. . .  Hmmm. . .  Advancement ?  or what. . ?  I Learned to Navigate ( In Australia ) with the traditional methods, and, touch wood, , I've never, EVER busted controlled airspace. . . .So I don't know yet whether this is a good or a bad thing as regards training fresh pilots. . . time will tell. . .

 

 

[M61A1]

Discrete frequency at YWCK so no congestion.

That is the case for Warwick, but for anyone on 126.7 it's the usual.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Y is the ICAO code to designate Aerodromes in Australia with a 3 letter extension.  Ours is YSGR for South Grafton. It is not an airport, just an ALA but Air Services have given it the code as it is published in the VFG ERSA guide. In NZ the code is NZ with a 2 letter extension. N is most of the South Pacific so the second letter designates the country. In NZ they dispense with the NZ as it is obvious so locally all the airport codes are just the last 2 letters. The UK is part of Northern Europe with the location of E & the country code of G so all UK airports start with EG with a 2 letter extension.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Easily done when there is no-one at your location but every airstrip (some busy) for a few hundred miles can hear you.

Pilots are usually trained not to talk over others on the same frequency, and country frequencies never get as crowded as city airports, so if this is occurring it's a matter of training your brain to take note of the multiple stations using the radio medium vs the eyes looking at a deserted airfield.

 

 

[M61A1]

Pilots are usually trained not to talk over others on the same frequency, and country frequencies never get as crowded as city airports, so if this is occurring it's a matter of training your brain to take note of the multiple stations using the radio medium vs the eyes looking at a deserted airfield.

All good in theory..... I have heard many transmissions made over others. Quite likely that those at each end can not hear each other, but if you're in the middle you get horrible hash and cannot transmit effectively.

 

An example might be....You're out flying near Clifton, someone makes a call at Kilcoy, at the same time someone else at Goondiwindi makes a call. The Kilcoy pilot will not be affected by the Goondi pilot, nor will the Goodi pilot be affected by the Kilcoy pilot, but those in between get clogged airways. When you have a perfect day in SEQ there is a lot of traffic on the radio and most on the same frequency but different locations. Generally you can hear anyone from Rainbow Beach to Tyagarah, and Goondi , Moree , Tara and Wondai to the west, often further.

 

Have a look at the charts and see how many strips there are, and most of them don't have discreet frequencies.

 

 

[440032]

Trainee pilot perceived to be not of Australian origin transmitting over my airfield yesterday, somewhere. All I could understand was the location, not one word else. So much for the English language requirement.

 

I had no idea who/what/where he was, and didn't get answered, so I bugged out Lima Lima to the south for ten mins til the LZ was clear. (I hoped!)