Urban Myths

[FlyingVizsla]

Why we no longer have Tail Draggers:-

 

On another (non-aviation) forum, someone posted this to explain why :

 

Piper Aircraft being successfully sued for product negligence for producing taildraggers. From memory the pilot and airport manager had problems, and the pilot taxied for takeoff but the airport manager stepped in front of the airplane to stop him, and was killed by the propeller - the pilot cannot see directly in front until sufficient power is applied and the tail comes up. Hence the pilot could not see the idiot in front of him until far too late. The case essentially killed light planes in the US for a decade. When protective laws were passed all the light airplanes were subsequently tricycle geared.

 

 

Any other Urban Myths to debunk?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

They're still being built by many US firms.

 

 

[kasper]

Yet to see a citabria with a training wheel

 

 

[planesmaker]

What idiot would stand in front of an aircraft with engine running? Tricycle or TD?

 

 

[derekliston]

What idiot would stand in front of an aircraft with engine running? Tricycle or TD?

Just being picky really, but aircraft marshals at RPT fields do it all the time!!!

 

 

[turboplanner]

Why we no longer have Tail Draggers:-On another (non-aviation) forum, someone posted this to explain why :

Piper Aircraft being successfully sued for product negligence for producing taildraggers. From memory the pilot and airport manager had problems, and the pilot taxied for takeoff but the airport manager stepped in front of the airplane to stop him, and was killed by the propeller - the pilot cannot see directly in front until sufficient power is applied and the tail comes up. Hence the pilot could not see the idiot in front of him until far too late. The case essentially killed light planes in the US for a decade. When protective laws were passed all the light airplanes were subsequently tricycle geared.

 

 

Any other Urban Myths to debunk?

Probably true, but probably related to a single case.

Product Liability has been gazetted here in Australia, but there hasn't been a case big enough to warrant an issue being taken to our High Court to set the ball rolling.

 

It's father appears to be Ralph Nader who relentlessly pursued General Motors claiming the rear suspension of the Chevrolet Corvair caused many deaths.

 

Another major trend-maker was the case against Ford Motor Co for fires resulting from crashes of its Pinto model.

 

The first one I came across was about a Husband and wife in a White Prime Mover travelling bobtail, hit a corner too fast, slid across the road, hit a pole, and the outboard mounted fuel tank was crushed and incinerated them. White Motor Corp was fined around $10 million in punitive damages and another $10 million or so awarded to the estates of the deceased, after lawyers told the court that if the fuel tank had been located between the chassis rails the fatality would not have occurred.

 

Another one followed a semi-tanker rollover where similar damages and payout occurred after a Lawyer claimed that if the barrel diameter of the tanker has been reduced in the area above the fifth wheel the centre of gravity would have been lower and the rollover would not have occurred.

 

In both cases there were very good reasons for the designs being what they were, and those designs are still dominant in the transport industry today, without any attached string of fatalities.

 

 

[M61A1]

Just being picky really, but aircraft marshals at RPT fields do it all the time!!!

Yes, but it's standard procedure to stand to one side, so you can be seen by the pilot and also so you don't get run over.

 

 

[derekliston]

Yes, but it's standard procedure to stand to one side, so you can be seen by the pilot and also so you don't get run over.

True!

 

 

[M61A1]

I was told a story by a RAAF instructor in the early 80s, of a launch chief who turned rather white and a gibbering mess after walking through the prop of a DC3 on startup at night. The story goes that the engine must have coughed at exactly the right moment for him to walk through unscathed, he then realised his error.

 

I cannot vouch for the truth of it, but I know of several events which occurred in the defence force, when retold have been greatly exaggerated with the passing of time.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...I cannot vouch for the truth of it, but I know of several events which occurred in the defence force, when retold have been greatly exaggerated with the passing of time.

Why spoil a good story with facts?

Many a good tale improves over time; the croc my wife encountered gets bigger each time she tells the story.

 

 

[M61A1]

I was listening to some RAAFies telling some students about the event where the wheel fell off the F111 on take off. In their version, the wheel wreaked havoc everywhere and wrote off a car in a carpark. Now, I was there and I saw the wheel, amazingly it did no damage to anything except the car. It was almost comical watching this wheel a few hundred metres away, rolling, slowing and wobbling before bumping into the front right guard of a car then falling over, leaving no more damage than you could with your knee.

 

Over time, with retelling the tale now has the car written off.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

An engine idling at 1000rpm with a three blade prop has 50 prop blades passing per second. A bit hard to avoid that.

 

But if the plane was taxying at 10kts (5.1 m/s) and the person was walking toward it at 5 kilometres per hour (1.4 m/s) then at the combined 6.5 m/s they might be in the 200mm wide blade arc for only 0.03 seconds and the chance of being hit is then greatly reduced.

 

 

[IBob]

An engine idling at 1000rpm with a three blade prop has 50 prop blades passing per second. A bit hard to avoid that.But if the plane was taxying at 10kts (5.1 m/s) and the person was walking toward it at 5 kilometres per hour (1.4 m/s) then at the combined 6.5 m/s they might be in the 200mm wide blade arc for only 0.03 seconds and the chance of being hit is then greatly reduced.

So, what you're saying is, when walking through props, do so briskly and don't hang around???..........)

 

 

[facthunter]

Most radials are a 2 to one reduction. Someone did walk through one idling at Essendon and collapsed when he realized what had happened. So the story goes and I'm a bit inclined to believe it. I can't remember what the lowest idling speed was for the R-2000. It's probably quite slow but the engines are not happy as the counterweights tumble and make dreadful noises at low rpm. You don't leave them there for long. Nev

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Why we no longer have Tail Draggers:-On another (non-aviation) forum, someone posted this to explain why :

 

Piper Aircraft being successfully sued for product negligence for producing taildraggers. From memory the pilot and airport manager had problems, and the pilot taxied for takeoff but the airport manager stepped in front of the airplane to stop him, and was killed by the propeller - the pilot cannot see directly in front until sufficient power is applied and the tail comes up. Hence the pilot could not see the idiot in front of him until far too late. The case essentially killed light planes in the US for a decade. When protective laws were passed all the light airplanes were subsequently tricycle geared.

 

 

Any other Urban Myths to debunk?

Not a myth....

 

Cleveland v. Piper Aircraft

 

 

[facthunter]

Shows you what happens when you have the world's highest % of Lawyers out there following the money. Just being Litigious is not justice. It's a rampant form of self injury for that society.. Nev

 

 

[derekliston]

My contribution to the urban myths was as told to me by a wartime Sunderland mechanic. According to him, if they had been working on the engines they would walk inboard to the fuselage and forward to the cockpit hatch and drop through, then one day they had to work on a Catalina and a mechanic did what he was accustomed to doing, walked inboard, dropped onto the fuselage and walked forward to the hatch, between the two turning propellers, which as you probably know are very close together. The story goes that when he realised what he had done he collapsed.

 

 

[billwoodmason]

An engine idling at 1000rpm with a three blade prop has 50 prop blades passing per second. A bit hard to avoid that.But if the plane was taxying at 10kts (5.1 m/s) and the person was walking toward it at 5 kilometres per hour (1.4 m/s) then at the combined 6.5 m/s they might be in the 200mm wide blade arc for only 0.03 seconds and the chance of being hit is then greatly reduced.

Won’t be trying this anytime soon.

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

What idiot would stand in front of an aircraft with engine running? Tricycle or TD?

A golfer?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Not a myth....Cleveland v. Piper Aircraft

The original idea was that a case should be decided by a jury of “12 good men and true”.

They seem to be a thin on the ground these days. Most people with life experience and common sense seem to be able to get out of doing jury service, and clever lawyers manipulate the selection process. No wonder the result is often un-flamin-beleavable.

 

 

[turboplanner]

The original idea was that a case should be decided by a jury of “12 good men and true”.They seem to be a thin on the ground these days. Most people with life experience and common sense seem to be able to get out of doing jury service, and clever lawyers manipulate the selection process. No wonder the result is often un-flamin-beleavable.

I don’t know that getting out of jury service is all that easy. The papers that came with my call up were quite severe. I turned up ready to plead business duties but that clearly wasn’t on and I had to sit out in the bull pit as people were called up. After a while I warmed to the idea and decided I wanted to do it. I was called up to a case and walked to a court room for the selection process, and down the aisle to face a a judge. The spectators all seemed to be beefy ferals. The judge brought the accused in and he stood behind us. He was charged with high level distribution of drugs. A quick look around showed he was a feral not to be trifled with, and I could see there could be problems after a guilty verdict, but now was determined to do my duty. I was the fourth person challenged and was out on the street less than an hour after arrival.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I ... was determined to do my duty. I was the fourth person challenged and was out on the street less than an hour after arrival.

I too wouldn't mind doing my duty Turbs, but anyone connected with emergency work seems to be exempt.

 

I'd like to know on what grounds people like you are challenged by the defence lawyers. Is it because you look like you might know a bit about the law and will make their job that much harder?

 

 

[bexrbetter]

A golfer?

Harsh ....

 

 

[bexrbetter]

i bought my Dad a helicopter ride on the Gold Coast 22 years ago, 60 birthday. At the last moment we decided to also throw my 3 daughters in as well. The lady helped 2 in the left side, while i put my youngest in the right side and put her belt on.

 

This was on a small heli jetty, whatever you call it.

 

i then closed the door and in the best of Darwin traditions, being all my life taught to walk around the rear of vehicles, took a step back, turned left and talk 2 steps and froze.

 

An image I will never forget, nor the sound, not so far in front of my face the spinning rear rotor.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Any other Urban Myths to debunk?

I have heard that Lycoming and Continental wont update their engine designs through fear of lawsuits.

 

Theory is updating is an admission their old designs are no good, and if someone crashes an old one, the lawsuits will be massive.