I'm thinking of getting my Flight Instructor Rating Ultralights

[Astroguy]

I'm thinking of getting my Flight Instructor Rating Ultralights.

 

The Ikarus C - 42 is an advacned ultralight that I have been flying for 50 hours now and in Canada that is enough to obtain your Instructor rating after another 10 hrs grounds school and another test in Ottawa and another check ride with unassociated test flight instructor.

 

So I'm going for it.... it allows certain privileges that I don't have with my ULPP (Ultralight Pilot Permit) plus I could then start taking people on familiarization flights and some basic instruction to start.

 

Not bad for a guy who simpley wanted to fullfill a bucket list item of solo control of an airplane in one circuit....but now I"m addicted!

 

Video of my practice flight in the circuit below..

 

Thanks

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIKfuDX9ww

 

 

[poteroo]

You'll find instructing is very rewarding, but onerous at the same time. You'll be more nervous than the 1st student that you send solo: believe me, you'll be sooo happy to see them back safely on the runway.

 

btw, here in Australia, the minimum TT for instructing is 125 hrs of in command flying in an 'ultralight'. This, plus a 20 hrs flying course done with a senior instructor, and a test by a Pilot Examiner. Included with that 20 hrs flying is at least 20 hrs of briefing practice and theory presentation, including what we call 'Principles & Method of Instruction'. Your cost to do the instructor course is not less than A$5000 at most schools.

 

But spare a thought for the student instructor in GA in Australia - 30 hrs dual flight + 20 hrs 'mutual' practice with another student instructor, plus much more than 50 hrs of theory & briefing presentation. Takes at least 6 weeks full time and runs out closer to A$18,000. Then, you are tested by our CASA - and the failure rate for 1st try is very high (66% I think).

 

happy days,

 

 

[facthunter]

Instructing is a fast way to really see if you can fly. It will (I hope) motivate you to be really on the ball and be a bit of a magician at the same time. Learn to pull the rabbit out of a hat now and again when it is really required. You have to let the student go far enough without letting them go too far into the crash you just save them from. Being able to fly is one thing. Being able to pass the skills on is another. Good luck with it. Nev

 

 

[Downunder]

btw, here in Australia, the minimum TT for instructing is 125 hrs of in command flying in an 'ultralight'. This, plus a 20 hrs flying course done with a senior instructor, and a test by a Pilot Examiner. Included with that 20 hrs flying is at least 20 hrs of briefing practice and theory presentation, including what we call 'Principles & Method of Instruction'. Your cost to do the instructor course is not less than A$5000 at most schools.

happy days,

Thanks for that. I was thinking about this recently.

 

After my 5 grand, what does this allow me to do as a basic instructor? And what I cannot do, I guess....

 

Oh! And if using my aircraft, would that be still $5 000?

 

 

[Astroguy]

You'll find instructing is very rewarding, but onerous at the same time. You'll be more nervous than the 1st student that you send solo: believe me, you'll be sooo happy to see them back safely on the runway.btw, here in Australia, the minimum TT for instructing is 125 hrs of in command flying in an 'ultralight'. This, plus a 20 hrs flying course done with a senior instructor, and a test by a Pilot Examiner. Included with that 20 hrs flying is at least 20 hrs of briefing practice and theory presentation, including what we call 'Principles & Method of Instruction'. Your cost to do the instructor course is not less than A$5000 at most schools.

 

But spare a thought for the student instructor in GA in Australia - 30 hrs dual flight + 20 hrs 'mutual' practice with another student instructor, plus much more than 50 hrs of theory & briefing presentation. Takes at least 6 weeks full time and runs out closer to A$18,000. Then, you are tested by our CASA - and the failure rate for 1st try is very high (66% I think).

 

happy days,

Well wow....and wow.

Here in Canada the flight instructor for UL permit is way way less....maybe not a good thing.

 

It's minimum of 50 hours flight time.....then 10 hour course and 5 further hours specialized right seat flying flight time...then a written exam.... then a flight check ride with an unaffiliated Pilot Examiner instructor....

 

I'd say the grand total for for all the hours plus exam costs and check rides will be just around the $12,000 Cdn mark.

 

I am really looking forward to have this chance..

 

I can only imagine what you say concerning the first time you give the all clear for a solo!! wow!!

 

thanks for the contact

 

 

[Astroguy]

Instructing is a fast way to really see if you can fly. It will (I hope) motivate you to be really on the ball and be a bit of a magician at the same time. Learn to pull the rabbit out of a hat now and again when it is really required. You have to let the student go far enough without letting them go too far into the crash you just save them from. Being able to fly is one thing. Being able to pass the skills on is another. Good luck with it. Nev

Yes... I'm only a few hours into my training as instructor and I'm finding this to be a completely different animal than I had vizuallized!!!

Communication.... I"m usually good at it.... but I'm finding that I have to learn alot considering I am a good communicator. Trying to estimate the students ability and background knowledge and so on.... It is a bigger jump than I had thought.... about the same size jump as getting my license in the first place.

 

Also... as you say...learning how to let the student go far enough to learn!! and not die!!!

 

Oh well I"m looking forward to this, and thanks for the contact!

 

Dave

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Not wishing to be a wet blanket here. . ..

 

It is My personal belief that Not all pilots are capable of being INSTRUCTORS in the art of flying aeroplanes. . .however 'Brilliant' they think that they are,Nor how many hours that they have in their logbook. . . ..

 

It takes many many hours, nay Years of varied experience before ANY pilot has sufficient, all round experience to effectively pass on their garnered, brass plated knowledge to an innocent person. In the same way that not all people can become effective schoolteachers. . unless they have the 'Spark' that makes them GREAT teachers. . .we have all met instructors who seem to be lacking in some aspect or other. .. if you have not,. . then you are a lucky aviator. . . .

 

In my own experience of various 'Instructors' I have to say that when you have around 5 -600 hours of flight experience, in all sorts of wildly different weather conditions,. . and have made all of the horrible mistakes and errors yourself AND SURVIVED. . ,. . .perhaps then, you MIGHT be able to become a useful mentor for NEW pilots. . .until then,. . .build your experience and don't try to make money out of innocent people until you fecking KNOW the subject inside out.. . .

 

Otherwise,. . .you are not helping to make safe aviators, and doing them NO favours in the process . . . .Just helping to add to the other thread on here,. . accidents. . .etc. . .

 

 

[Phil Perry]

OMG. . .I've bin CAUTIONED . . . .Listen Phil. . . .If you Don't like my Post, then SAY SO.. . .

 

.Lets have a sensible argument. OK ?. . .My OPINION is just that. . . . .doesn't make it right does it ?. . . throwing yellow paint over it doesn't make sense really mate. . .If you disagree with me, then let's hear the reasoning in your argument lad. . . ..otherwise you're simply chucking shyte up the wall of my house for no reason. . . .

 

 

[facthunter]

Not ALL people should FLY planes either, Phil let alone be instructors. Many of us learned to fly, DESPITE some of the instructors we "endured". Everyone contributes "something" even if it's a desire to not emulate them, when you get your chance to instruct, if that is your wish.. Many pilots have told me they would not have the patience. to do that job. I must say that aspect of it hasn't entered into my thought music. IF you're keen, I will keep on fronting up. unless it's obvious that you will forever struggle. That's a difficult place to identify precisely and needs some considerable discussion, between the parties.

 

. In the services they just scrubbed you, and that's it.. They even had a % to be eliminated. Richtofen (the red Baron) pranged quite a few planes, early on and could easily have been scrubbed. Fortunately (for them) they didn't do that.. Nev

 

 

[Astroguy]

Not wishing to be a wet blanket here. . ..It is My personal belief that Not all pilots are capable of being INSTRUCTORS in the art of flying aeroplanes. . .however 'Brilliant' they think that they are,Nor how many hours that they have in their logbook. . . ..

 

It takes many many hours, nay Years of varied experience before ANY pilot has sufficient, all round experience to effectively pass on their garnered, brass plated knowledge to an innocent person. In the same way that not all people can become effective schoolteachers. . unless they have the 'Spark' that makes them GREAT teachers. . .we have all met instructors who seem to be lacking in some aspect or other. .. if you have not,. . then you are a lucky aviator. . . .

 

In my own experience of various 'Instructors' I have to say that when you have around 5 -600 hours of flight experience, in all sorts of wildly different weather conditions,. . and have made all of the horrible mistakes and errors yourself AND SURVIVED. . ,. . .perhaps then, you MIGHT be able to become a useful mentor for NEW pilots. . .until then,. . .build your experience and don't try to make money out of innocent people until you fecking KNOW the subject inside out.. . .

 

Otherwise,. . .you are not helping to make safe aviators, and doing them NO favours in the process . . . .Just helping to add to the other thread on here,. . accidents. . .etc. . .

Thanks Phil.... I do appreciate your points.... thanks for the contact

DaveP

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Hey mate,. . .No offence Intendned. . . . Bin there. . .Dun that. . . .

 

 

[Astroguy]

OMG. . .I've bin CAUTIONED . . . .Listen Phil. . . .If you Don't like my Post, then SAY SO.. . ..Lets have a sensible argument. OK ?. . .My OPINION is just that. . . . .doesn't make it right does it ?. . . throwing yellow paint over it doesn't make sense really mate. . .If you disagree with me, then let's hear the reasoning in your argument lad. . . ..otherwise you're simply chucking shyte up the wall of my house for no reason. . . .

Sorry.... I am not understanding this post to a thread that I started.... On my computer it shows as Phil responding to Phil.

Anyhow...I am very aware of the odd nature of teaching after 50 hours and am not too sure of what to think but I will initially simply be doing familiarization flights sort of like my PAX rating.

 

I worked in hospitals for years and I recall surgeons using the phrase "see one...do one... teach one"!!!! and I wasn't sure what to make of that remark.

 

My flight instructor sees a bit in me that might work with instruction...he has well over 1,000 hours and I'm using that as a bit of a guide to move forward but I do appreciate these comments that are thought inspired and take time to type out.

 

Again I do thank everyone .... it really helps you think outside of your own cranium to be able to use 1,000's of hours of experience across the world to help me.

 

The internet really give me access to a million experiences and I thank you for it.

 

Dave Pianosi

 

 

[Astroguy]

Not ALL people should FLY planes either, Phil let alone be instructors. Many of us learned to fly, DESPITE some of the instructors we "endured". Everyone contributes "something" even if it's a desire to not emulate them, when you get your chance to instruct, if that is your wish.. Many pilots have told me they would not have the patience. to do that job. I must say that aspect of it hasn't entered into my thought music. IF you're keen, I will keep on fronting up. unless it's obvious that you will forever struggle. That's a difficult place to identify precisely and needs some considerable discussion, between the parties.. In the services they just scrubbed you, and that's it.. They even had a % to be eliminated. Richtofen (the red Baron) pranged quite a few planes, early on and could easily have been scrubbed. Fortunately (for them) they didn't do that.. Nev

Thanks... I like these opinions... they all have roots and do offer alot of traction.

 

I absolutely love flying and all the 'stuff' that goes with it.

 

Thanks for the contact

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Not ALL people should FLY planes either, Phil let alone be instructors. Many of us learned to fly, DESPITE some of the instructors we "endured". Everyone contributes "something" even if it's a desire to not emulate them, when you get your chance to instruct, if that is your wish.. Many pilots have told me they would not have the patience. to do that job. I must say that aspect of it hasn't entered into my thought music. IF you're keen, I will keep on fronting up. unless it's obvious that you will forever struggle. That's a difficult place to identify precisely and need some considerable discussion.. In the services they just scrubbed you, and that's it.. They even had a % to be eliminated. Richtofen (the red Baron) pranged quite a few planes, early on and could easily have been scrubbed. Fortunately (for them) they didn't do that.. Nev

Not ALL people should FLY planes either, Phil let alone be instructors. Many of us learned to fly, DESPITE some of the instructors we "endured". Everyone contributes "something" even if it's a desire to not emulate them, when you get your chance to instruct, if that is your wish.. Many pilots have told me they would not have the patience. to do that job. I must say that aspect of it hasn't entered into my thought music. IF you're keen, I will keep on fronting up. unless it's obvious that you will forever struggle. That's a difficult place to identify precisely and needs some considerable discussion, between the parties.. In the services they just scrubbed you, and that's it.. They even had a % to be eliminated. Richtofen (the red Baron) pranged quite a few planes, early on and could easily have been scrubbed. Fortunately (for them) they didn't do that.. Nev

In the UK anyhow,. .. a single bloke with ONE aeroplane needs a minimum of 475 hours a Year to even break even. . .which, in the current financial climate, means that only HUGE corporations can operate flying schools. . .they Miss out on the really GOOD instructors in this way it seems. . . .SAD. . .

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Thanks... I like these opinions... they all have roots and do offer alot of traction.I absolutely love flying and all the 'stuff' that goes with it.

Thanks for the contact

You keep at it Astroguy. . . .you could well be a GREAT instructor and Mentor. . .just make sure you get some decent avaition experience in the meantime mate. . .all the best to you.

 

Kind regads,. . .Phil.

 

 

[facthunter]

You won't upset anyone here Dave by the way you are doing things. The Caution reference has nothing to do with you as you didn't initiate it.. If you want some more specific issues addressed you are welcome to try. I was a "chalky" in a past life but still had to do fully paid (by me), one week full on course to be sure of getting the Principles and Methods of Instruction on my CASA issued licence. that qualifies me to operate a full sized flying school in that regard.. ie No other study is required on that issue to go all the way but.... Obviously you "never stop learning" (if you are receptive to it ) in flying . When you know all there is to know you are in a place you should not be. attitude wise. You can learn something from an inexperienced student or a very crude basic aeroplane... Nev

 

 

[poteroo]

Thanks for that. I was thinking about this recently.After my 5 grand, what does this allow me to do as a basic instructor? And what I cannot do, I guess....

Oh! And if using my aircraft, would that be still $5 000?

OK, my guesstimate was on the back of the proverbial matchbox. But, based on my schools' pricings:

 

20 hrs flight time* @ $220/hr dual (GST incl) = $4400

 

20 hrs briefing practice & classroom time @ $44/hr = $880

 

Total = $5280

 

* this assumes that the trainee requires 1 hr of brief/debrief to go with each 1 hr of flight. So, in effect, the trainee is paying $44/hr for this CFI's time.

 

All of the above assumes that, not only do you have 125 hrs PIC of an RAAus aircraft, but, you are able to fly the aircraft very well from the RHS. Unless you have this skill, then it's not easy for you to both fly and 'patter' the lessons simultaneously. Your patter must be closely linked to the control manipulations - bloody hard to achieve when you start.

 

It also assumes that you are well versed in your BAK theory.

 

As well, you'll have to develop 'public speaking' skills so as to avoid freezing up when you stand up in front of several students in a classroom. The pre-flight briefing is probably as important in the learning-to-fly process as is the training flight itself. Therefore, it must be understood by the student and you don't bore them to death... (metaphorically that is).

 

Now, if a pilot was to front up with their own aircraft, which would necessarily have fully functioning dual controls and brakes, and be fully insured to cover me for training, then you'd only need to pay the instructor charge out rate of $88/hr, but this would be for every hour involved in ground and air training. Remember that the schools' aircraft is sitting idle while the CFI is conducting your briefing and flight training, and 'eating its' head off!'

 

One of the items not included here is the one of 'mutual' practice by trainee instructors. They cannot take out anyone else other than an instructor, but if there were 2 trainees doing the course together, it's possible for them to conduct practice flights after they have completed the dual component for each section. This pretty much doubles the total in flight practice instructing that trainees do. IMHO, this is one of the better points of the CASA GA instructor rating.

 

As a newly minted instructor, you have to be supervised by a CFI initially, and for this purpose, the CFI needs to be on site and readily 'available.' This isn't too well defined in Ops Manual, but if the CFI understands their responsibilities, particularly in respect to safety matters, then we are all very, very careful about employing instructors. So, the new instructor becomes, in reality, a 'cost' to the flying school until such time as they are 'out' of supervision. Don't expect to be paid $88/hr for your efforts while the CFI is just supervising.

 

I'm not sure about other locations, but in WA we seem to have very few available 'junior' instructors about. There are times when having one available would be handy. I can't think of a single school which has sufficient flying for it to fully employ the CFI, let alone several junior instructors - so perhaps that explains the apparent shortage of juniors. However, for the new instructor to be truly involved, then they should make individual efforts to attract students - not just sit back in the lounge and expect to be fed a stream of grateful students. I don't think much has changed in this respect in the last 50 years: junior instructors 'hustle' for trade as has long been the case.

 

Trust this goes some way to your understanding of the instruction process, happy days,

 

 

[Astroguy]

BTW just a note.... I only need 50 hours in Canada to instruct but I don't have any positi

 

You keep at it Astroguy. . . .you could well be a GREAT instructor and Mentor. . .just make sure you get some decent avaition experience in the meantime mate. . .all the best to you.Kind regads,. . .Phil.

Roger that.... I have had this revelation that started back in January that I can spend money on myself .... you know kids and stuff cost.... but I finally came to the conclusion that I'll use some money a bit selfishly on myself.... this aviation bug which started years ago but I felt I never would have the nerve, skill nor money seems to have grown to doable obsession. I am a self proclaimed overly self critical person.... I try to stay humble.... I've read the book "The Kill Zone" and such and know that this thing called Aviation can be a deadly thing.... recent converted stats show General Aviation ( not Scheduled Flight aviation) is almost 11 times more dangerous than driving a car. Exactly opposite to what we've been told all of our lives . I know this stat is argueable because converting car mileage to flight hours is a fuzzy at best task.

 

And I do appreciate any comments that people take the time to show an interest with their inputs... I respect anyone who has greater experience than I.

 

Thanks again

 

Dave

 

 

[Astroguy]

OK, my guesstimate was on the back of the proverbial matchbox. But, based on my schools' pricings:20 hrs flight time* @ $220/hr dual (GST incl) = $4400

 

20 hrs briefing practice & classroom time @ $44/hr = $880

 

Total = $5280

 

* this assumes that the trainee requires 1 hr of brief/debrief to go with each 1 hr of flight. So, in effect, the trainee is paying $44/hr for this CFI's time.

 

All of the above assumes that, not only do you have 125 hrs PIC of an RAAus aircraft, but, you are able to fly the aircraft very well from the RHS. Unless you have this skill, then it's not easy for you to both fly and 'patter' the lessons simultaneously. Your patter must be closely linked to the control manipulations - bloody hard to achieve when you start.

 

It also assumes that you are well versed in your BAK theory.

 

As well, you'll have to develop 'public speaking' skills so as to avoid freezing up when you stand up in front of several students in a classroom. The pre-flight briefing is probably as important in the learning-to-fly process as is the training flight itself. Therefore, it must be understood by the student and you don't bore them to death... (metaphorically that is).

 

Now, if a pilot was to front up with their own aircraft, which would necessarily have fully functioning dual controls and brakes, and be fully insured to cover me for training, then you'd only need to pay the instructor charge out rate of $88/hr, but this would be for every hour involved in ground and air training. Remember that the schools' aircraft is sitting idle while the CFI is conducting your briefing and flight training, and 'eating its' head off!'

 

One of the items not included here is the one of 'mutual' practice by trainee instructors. They cannot take out anyone else other than an instructor, but if there were 2 trainees doing the course together, it's possible for them to conduct practice flights after they have completed the dual component for each section. This pretty much doubles the total in flight practice instructing that trainees do. IMHO, this is one of the better points of the CASA GA instructor rating.

 

As a newly minted instructor, you have to be supervised by a CFI initially, and for this purpose, the CFI needs to be on site and readily 'available.' This isn't too well defined in Ops Manual, but if the CFI understands their responsibilities, particularly in respect to safety matters, then we are all very, very careful about employing instructors. So, the new instructor becomes, in reality, a 'cost' to the flying school until such time as they are 'out' of supervision. Don't expect to be paid $88/hr for your efforts while the CFI is just supervising.

 

I'm not sure about other locations, but in WA we seem to have very few available 'junior' instructors about. There are times when having one available would be handy. I can't think of a single school which has sufficient flying for it to fully employ the CFI, let alone several junior instructors - so perhaps that explains the apparent shortage of juniors. However, for the new instructor to be truly involved, then they should make individual efforts to attract students - not just sit back in the lounge and expect to be fed a stream of grateful students. I don't think much has changed in this respect in the last 50 years: junior instructors 'hustle' for trade as has long been the case.

 

Trust this goes some way to your understanding of the instruction process, happy days,

Well said about the junior instructors and attempts to attract students. That seems to be definitely part of where I fit in I think.

 

I might never make flight instructor...and that's perfectly ok.

 

I started all this thinking I'd only go until I completed a solo circuit.... but the bug has bit me hard

 

Thanks for the contact

 

DaveP

 

 

[facthunter]

Obviously you comply with the Countries rules where you operate but the times are minimums. I frankly can't see it being sufficient...Looking back through my log books I had 400 approx. hours when first got the lowest instructor rating in General Aviation. Up to that I had done para drops, joy flights, and some charter on a Commercial PL issued at around 200 hours. Trained on tailwheel Planes and did plenty of spins and aeros. and all the required patter and so forth.

 

I still wasn't quite ready for the extreme unsafe positions some (experienced ) pilots would put the plane into. This is the reason I mentioned the rapid rate of learning what your real limits are, that you will be exposed to inevitably.. When you take over (which you certainly will at some stage and it will be sudden ) you must be absolutely confident of doing it well and your student must be able to have justifiable confidence in you and your ability. That's critical in the Instructor student relationship. You must also set the best possible example at all times. Students fixate on example. Every sequence must be clear and fully understood before you tick it off. The worst thing I could imagine is if someone did some poor technique and got injured or worse that My instruction wasn't sufficient for the adequate performance of the pilot in an area where he should have been sound. It's a big responsibility the Flying Instructor is undertaking. The basic training is only done ONCE. in respect of each pilot. Revision later may miss the weakness also. whilst this is the CFI's responsibility in your early experience to monitor you YOU are the one actually at the coal face.. Sending off your first solo when a wind change happens or some traffic arrives you will know real concern. It's Part of the deal., and we've all been there. Nev

 

 

[poteroo]

Thanks for that. I was thinking about this recently.After my 5 grand, what does this allow me to do as a basic instructor? And what I cannot do, I guess....

Oh! And if using my aircraft, would that be still $5 000?

My earlier reply to you needs some correction and explanation>

 

You only need 100 hrs PIC to start your instructor training - not 120 as I quoted. However, the Ops Manual says you need a minimum of 30 hrs ground training - not 20 as I quoted.

 

The junior instructor requires supervision by the CFI or senior instructor up until they become an SI. To sit for the SI, you need a min 150 TT, of which 75 must be instruction, during which time you should have presented 3 students to the CFI as ready for solo.

 

Now, here's the numbers you need to progress through the RAAus instructing ranks.

 

1. You must pass your PC - min hrs here is 15 dual + 5 solo

 

2. Then, you need a further 5 hrs for passenger carriage.

 

3. Then, you need a further 90 hrs of PIC to reach the instructor course minimums of 100 PIC

 

4. Then, you do 20 hrs dual in the course.

 

5. Then, to progress to SI, and be out of supervision - you need 75 hrs instruction

 

6. So, by now you will have flown 210 hrs TT

 

7. If you could fly those 75 hrs instruction in 90 days, you'd only need 1 CFI check flight - my guess is that you'd be looking at 6 mths, so there'll be 3 x 90 day linechecks for you to undergo = another 3 hrs, but probably paid for 100% by the school.

 

7. All of the above numbers assume you are Kingsford Smith re-incarnated, ie, they are the bare minimums. The system runs on competency, so I'd think any budgeting should be done on +10-15% above the minimums.

 

cheers,

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Not ALL people should FLY planes either, Phil let alone be instructors. Many of us learned to fly, DESPITE some of the instructors we "endured". Everyone contributes "something" even if it's a desire to not emulate them, when you get your chance to instruct, if that is your wish.. Many pilots have told me they would not have the patience. to do that job. I must say that aspect of it hasn't entered into my thought music. IF you're keen, I will keep on fronting up. unless it's obvious that you will forever struggle. That's a difficult place to identify precisely and needs some considerable discussion, between the parties.. In the services they just scrubbed you, and that's it.. They even had a % to be eliminated. Richtofen (the red Baron) pranged quite a few planes, early on and could easily have been scrubbed. Fortunately (for them) they didn't do that.. Nev

The ability to impart your store of aviation knowledge TO OTHERS is, as has been mentioned by others no this thread, a VITAL part of being a flight instructor.. some people that I have known, very good, knowledgeable pilots with many hundreds of hours flight time, do not necessarily have the TEACHING ability

 

It's OK to do an Instructor course, and understand all of the theory of what you need to pass on,. . .but I've found that some people seem to have difficulty doing this when a student doesn't grasp the script that has been prepared. OK, so you have to try another tack, ie, attempt to explain and physically demonstrate the concept in a different way, but finally culminating in the same result. Not all students are equal in the thought processes required to get the info burned into their brain. . . some require repeated sessions to reinforce some of the lesson schedule.

 

Eg. Friend of mine, professional HGV operator. . .just Couldn't get the LAST PART of the landings right.. . it took him 54 hours of dual training before the instructor trusted him to fly solo.

 

I have since flown as a passenger with him, and would happily trust him to fly any of my family members. Was he as thick as a brick ?. . .I don't believe that. The Instructor should HAVE GOT HIM TO FLY with another mentor in the same aircraft ( His own plane by the way ) Just my own opinion. . . ( Dangerous ground again here,. . I am NOT a QFI ) I was taught to fly initially by n Ex-RAF Hurricane pilot who had himself been a instructor ,. .. the an RAF pilot volunteer Gliding instructor, and Finally by the Greatly admired ( By ME ) Alan Baskett at Casey Airfield, Berwick Vic.( 1972/3 )

 

There were around five different instructors at that school, and I flew with four of them. Their instruction techniques were vastly different, whilst trying to teach the same subject. . . .1) Alan B took me for my evaluation / trial instructional flight in a PA28 140. (VH-CHR ) I liked the 'solid' feel of the Cherokee, but hated the high top instrument panel which blocked the view forward in the climbing phase. He said that my flying was OK, and that next lesson, we'd switch to the C-150. ( no doubt to stop me Pommie bastard whingeing about the panel in the Cherokee )

 

Next lesson came around,. . Alan was off sick, and I went up in a C-150 ( VH-KQM ) with a bloke called Kevin.. . .can't recall his surname, but he made it clear that he didn't like Pommies and he was very Military and 'By the numbers' in his patter.. . (made a mental note to avoid the bastard in future ) I DID have to employ him lter on in my training when, once again, Alan B wasn't on duty that day. .. and he tried to teach me Forced Landings. . .he said "You need to be three paddock widths away from the field you've chosen. .. and turn base two paddock widths from the estimated landing point. . ." to this day, I still don't know what a standard bloody Victorian Paddock Width is. . . .but I digress. . . .He was probably a good instructor in other ways. . .perhaps. . . ( If you weren't a Pommie maybe )

 

The next few lessons were with Alan B. where I learned Many things,including how not to die on the final turn by crossing the controls the wrong way, ie kicking in loads of rudder to intercept the runway centreline,. .. overshooting it and then using top aileron to correct the rapid increase in secondary effect bank. . .. . .he took me up to 6500 feet to show me what would happen if I did. . . I NEVER FORGOT THAT PARTICULAR LESSON !. .we did two to the left, and one to the right, but had to call it a day as this big girl was going to ejaculate my breakfast all over the panel if we spun it again. . . he had already sent me solo at six and a half hours. . .I couldn't believe it when he got out,. . I thought he was going for a piddle. . .) My solo mount was a ice little blue and silver 150 named VH-RXV

 

Next lesson: Alan had a severe toothache and wasn't there when I arrived,. .. so another nice instructor took me up,. .. I forget his name, but he was a really nice chap, who told me he was only instructing to build some hours for airline flying and where was I with my training ?. . .I said we were doing circuit entries to Moorrabbin and Essendon last lesson,. . .he said, well, there's an American Aircraft Carrier moored up in Westernport bay,. . D'you wanna go and have a look at that ?. . Of Course I did. . .there were lots of light Aircraft circling and doing touch and goes on it's deck. . . and he couldn't get permission,. . jeeze, that was a BIG ship. . . and it would have been nice to do a T+G. . .but it wasn't to be. . .

 

My Fourth Mentor was a straggly looking bloke named David Squirrell. . . a Terrific bloke. . .funny as a a bag full of monkeys,. .. always joking. . but a severely Good Cropduster pilot and flying Instructor. . . .he taught me loads of 'Cheats' and odd things that you really should'nt do in polite society. . . .he-checked me out on VH-TIG, the only DH82A on the field and all the memories came flooding back.

 

He let me solo it in under two hours,. . .since most of my UK experience had been in that type. . . He checked me out on the C-210, and the Cherokee Six 300, [lus C-172 / 182 / 177 RG / C-180./ Aeronca Champ. . . .amongst other types, over four and a half years at that site, I flew the Aerosubaru Fuji FA200/180 including Aeros, the Victa 115 and the Auster 6. . . Plus some twin time in an old Apache. . . Actually Alan B and Dave shared all this checking out stuff,. .. but it was a wonderful time to be alive and to sample the various techniques that different instructors used to get the point across. . . .THEY ALL HAD VASTLY DIFFERENT IDEAS ABOUT THIS,. . .That was fairly obvious. ! But it seemed to work as I've never crashed or even scratched a airframe,. ( Four Forced landings included here ) . and I'm still here and able to post all this crap. . .

 

Here endeth another of Phil's life story rants. . . . . ( If you just ignore me,. .. I'll go away. . .)

 

 

[facthunter]

No... it's all good stuff Phil. Flying's fun despite some of the "characters" who might upset one, (a little) and waste some of your money, along the way... Time to solo is emphasized too much . People vary a lot, and we had a lot of old Tigers etc to bend in the days after the war. Eventually the POWERS decided they couldn't be used as initial trainers in the early 60's and MOST instructors avoided flying them and their flying suits weren't used and Gosport tubes perished or couldn't be found if someone turned up wanting to fly the "double winger". so I took up the opportunity to do as much as possible in them while they were still flyable rather that the C-172 Cherokee 140 etc that everyone was flocking to.... All the initial training had to be done in them. A new era started. No spins and aeros . No flying upside down and the wheelbarrowing accidents started to appear in the landamatics...Nev

 

 

[Phil Perry]

No... it's all good stuff Phil. Flying's fun despite some of the "characters" who might upset one, (a little) and waste some of your money, along the way... Time to solo is emphasized too much . People vary a lot, and we had a lot of old Tigers etc to bend in the days after the war. Eventually the POWERS decided they couldn't be used as initial trainers in the early 60's and MOST instructors avoided flying them and their flying suits weren't used and Gosport tubes perished or couldn't be found if someone turned up wanting to fly the "double winger". so I took up the opportunity to do as much as possible in them while they were still flyable rather that the C-172 Cherokee 140 etc that everyone was flocking to.... All the initial training had to be done in them. A new era started. No spins and aeros . No flying upside down and the wheelbarrowing accidents started to appear in the landamatics...Nev

Most interesting explanation of the development of training in Australia, and a definite Uptick for the word 'Landamatics' Nev. . . I have also wondered, no doubt along with many others; why it was that spinning was deleted from the syllabus in the UK long ago also, considering the amount of stall spin fatalities there have been since. . .seems completely counter-intuitive. I doubt if governmental EX- PILOTS readily agreed with that idea.

 

Another one of my pet dislikes is the tiny amount of Instrument Flying experience included in G.A. PPL training, three hours in the whole course in the UK. Not sufficient in my view.

 

 

[facthunter]

While GA (certified) planes are much more "sorted" (Most quirks removed ) than the U/L's, we train less hours on the U/L s??? that are arguably more difficult to manage. We also don't train in spiral recoveries.( More likely to happen in reduced visibility situations.) This is because the airframe may be overloaded dynamically as the airspeed continues to increase in a spiral.. BUT just what are we doing the way we train? Is the matter treated as fully as might be expected/ needed? This is the area that an increasing number of serious accidents are occurring in ALL types of planes.

 

A spin doesn't overload the airframe no matter how long you stay in it as the airspeed stays slow at just above the stall, till you start to come out of it where you end up in a near vertical dive . A properly executed recovery may pull 2 and 1/2 G in the dive (and recovery) you end up in. and there's a significant height loss in this phase also. Spins are not approved in U/L aircraft. and they don't have to be spin tested. Some are, which is good to know in those examples..

 

Unfortunately not being able to spin one legally doesn't mean it won't spin if the ball is off to one side and you pull the stick back. (especially so if the plane.s loaded tail heavy).. IF you are close to the ground it won't matter as you need a certain minimum height as well as the skill to recover, which is usually more than circuit height anyhow. You may survive if the descent rate is not too high so that's SOME comfort, but not a lot,. as you are most likely going to be injured and the plane be a write -off. The initial part of the spin entry is usually a steep nose down attitude with wing drop and even worse than the fully developed spin from your survival point of view if the ground comes up then. (Turn onto final stuff)... Nev