Pax certification?

[hman123467]

Hi all,

 

I am doing my Raaus checkride tomorrow for my license (yay!) and am wanting to get my pax certification just after that. A few questions I have are:

 

1. Is it 10 more hours AFTER you get your license or just 10 ours total solo?

 

2. what happens on the checkride for the pax certification?

 

3. In GA, you can let the passenger fly the plane (but they cannot log it as hours), is this the case with raaus as well?

 

Cheers,

 

 

[kasper]

1. Its just 10 hours as pilot in command and that includes solo time before pilot certificate issue so its not post certificate hours

 

2. The check ride has to be in an aircraft type you've 2 hours experience on and will likely include a refresher of your passenger briefing and generally demonstrate you're confident, capable and safe flying the aircraft.

 

3. any person touching the controls while you as a pilot certificate only pilot (not instructor) is not under instruction and is not the pilot in command - that remains you as you are the pilot (unless of course they have a pilot certificate of their own that is appropriate for that aircraft) so provided its a safe thing to do it up to you as pilot in command how you command the aircraft ;-)

 

 

[djpacro]

[derekliston]

[ATTACH=full]61973[/ATTACH]

I can go with that except for the hypothetical case of the pilot being physically incapacitated. Is the unqualified passenger then supposed to just say a prayer and wait to die? I’ve always believed that, wives in particular, should at least be able to put an aeroplane down safely.

 

 

[kasper]

[ATTACH=full]61973[/ATTACH]

Agreed.

And if anyone from casa or RAAus ops are reading this I have DEFINITELY NOT breached that reg either as a passenger before I got a certificate / licence or after I got my certificates / licences.

 

 

[BlurE]

Pity, a right seat wing leveler would be handy sometimes.

 

 

[hman123467]

I can go with that except for the hypothetical case of the pilot being physically incapacitated. Is the unqualified passenger then supposed to just say a prayer and wait to die? I’ve always believed that, wives in particular, should at least be able to put an aeroplane down safely.

I think they'd be a bit more lenient in that situation

 

 

[old man emu]

CAR 228 - When is an aircraft "in flight"?

 

I raise that question in relation to the discussion of the King Air fatal we have been discussing in another thread.

 

 

[onetrack]

A dictionary definition of when an aircraft is actually "in flight", would describe that point as when the aircraft was actually off the ground, and being supported only by the air its moving through.

 

However, the FAA definition of "flight time" is, "(Pilot) time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight, and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing".

 

I think you would need a legal opinion, as to whether a (non-flying) pax who manipulated an aircraft control whilst the aircraft was being prepared for flight, is actually in breach of CAR 228. Personally, I would suggest they are.

 

 

[GraemeK]

Part 61 lists the requirements for a person to taxi an aircraft - and pax are not included.

 

 

[hman123467]

CAR 228 - When is an aircraft "in flight"?I raise that question in relation to the discussion of the King Air fatal we have been discussing in another thread.

A dictionary definition of when an aircraft is actually "in flight", would describe that point as when the aircraft was actually off the ground, and being supported only by the air its moving through.However, the FAA definition of "flight time" is, "(Pilot) time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight, and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing".

 

I think you would need a legal opinion, as to whether a (non-flying) pax who manipulated an aircraft control whilst the aircraft was being prepared for flight, is actually in breach of CAR 228. Personally, I would suggest they are.

If you go onto the actual consolidated regulations page (http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/car1988263/s228.html) and flick through them a bit, they also detail who can taxi, the definition of an aircraft in flight etc. appears to me that if it was sitting on the ground not moving and a passenger moved the control column, then they aren't breaking any laws

 

 

[GraemeK]

... as long as the engine isn't running, that is.

 

 

[facthunter]

The pilot should be in it if the engine's running. None the less you must use the Armstrong starter if you are alone, or you wither and die in some desolate place. The law is the law but if you don't manage all the factors affecting your flight to conduct it in the "safest" manner in the circumstances confronting you, you then commit a greater error. A golf course is not an approved landing area BUT... Resource management is use what you have left. Say you hit a bird and the wing leading edge is damaged. The plane needs constant left rudder to fly and you use a passenger to aid on the remaining part of the flight.. You would be a dill if you didn't wouldn't you?..

 

OR You get your new certificate and take all your friends and let them fly at low level over houses and trees etc because it's fun and they talk about it at the Pub. You get pinged and made an example of. BECAUSE you are being a DILL. You are not an instructor or skilled enough to recover the plane if one of your mates doesn't fly it properly.

 

 

[old man emu]

I love the way people, when discussing the application of Law, provide examples that make the discussion reductio ad absurdum . The Law might say black or white, but before you make that call, you have to erase the gray.

 

In facthunter's first two examples, an intelligent examination of the situations would lead an adjudicator to conclude that the actions were reasonable for the safety of the occupants of the aircraft. No offence. In the second paragraph, the situation is clearly unsafe. Offence.

 

 

[SSCBD]

The question is - Who has not let a pax have a wiggle on the stick! I do, Let them call the pot black, I believe is the saying. Really I don't believe the stuff here some times especially with RAA planes.

 

And to be clear not low level, and say above 3 thou. For all the bible bashers of fire and brimstone of CASA.