Marty_d Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 I recently read Robert Harris's excellent book "Munich". Set in late September 1938, "Munich" tells the story of British PM Neville Chamberlain's trip to Munich to meet Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini and French President Édouard Daladier in a desperate attempt to stop war (by carving bits of Czechoslovakia out for Hitler). The story is told through the eyes of one of Chamberlain's private secretaries. I'd only ever heard Chamberlain described as a weak-willed man, willing to do anything to appease Hitler. Obviously this is a work of fiction, but it does show an alternative view of him, as a man haunted by the huge losses of men in WWI and determined never to let it happen again. He (according to the story) negotiated tirelessly and skillfully, winning one more year of peace for the world before the war inevitably started in September 1939. Anyway, the author describes the flight as being in a Lockheed Electra, but said there were 14 passengers. I originally thought it was a Model 10, but that only has capacity for 10 passengers. Googling the Munich Agreement got me the following photo, showing Chamberlain on his return from Munich: Trying various combinations gave the rego number as G-AFGN, a Lockheed Model 14 Super Electra. The aircraft was near new when it flew Chamberlain to Munich and back, as it was built in 1938. It was owned by British Airways Ltd. Despite this distinguished service, poor old G-AFGN didn't last long. The following year, on 11th August 1939, she had an engine fire and was written off after a forced landing in Saint-Sauveur, France. Interestingly, the military conversion of the Super Electra was the Hudson bomber - one of which had a high-profile crash in Australia almost exactly a year after G-AFGN went down. On 13th August 1940, a RAAF Hudson II (A16-97) crashed on approach to Canberra, killing all 6 passengers and 4 crew. The passengers included three of Bob Menzies' cabinet ministers, which may have contributed to Menzies' United Australia Party (forerunner of the Liberal Party) losing government to the Labor Party headed by John Curtin the following year. 2
onetrack Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 Good write-up, Marty, thanks. The Lockheed Electras and Hudsons had a highly loaded wing of relatively small span, and it appears it was easy for a trainee pilot - or a lack of alertness by a trained, but low-hour pilot - to stall the aircraft by lowering, then raising the flaps - with the situation worsened, by possibly pulling back on the throttles too rapidly, in conjunction with flap movement, particularly when approaching landing speed. The (Fowler) flaps could generate a rapid and substantial nose-down change in attitude when fully lowered, and it was important in the Hudson to not try and compensate for that change in attitude, by raising the flaps. "It was the effect of the flaps that needed special attention. When they were lowered, there ‘may be’ a large change of attitude. A steep nose-down attitude might be necessary to maintain an adequate approach speed to overcome the additional drag of the flaps. ‘Fortunately,’ the novice was assured, ‘the aeroplane tends to assume a nose-down attitude of its own accord immediately the flaps are lowered, and no attempt must be made to hold the nose up.’ What then, was the likely trouble? A steep attitude would result in a greater angle through which the aeroplane must be moved before the landing. The angle could, ‘if practicable’, be lessened by increased use of the engine. But owing to the drag of the flaps, a decrease in the steepness of the attitude would result in a loss of flying speed. ‘Since the lowering of the flaps increases the lift co-efficient of a wing, any reduction of the flap angle during an approach may result in the stalling speed being increased above the approach speed, and therefore the flaps must not be raised during the descent.’ It's also conjectured that it wasn't Bob Hitchcock, the nominated pilot - but James Fairbairn, the politician - who was at the controls of the Hudson when it crashed outside Canberra. Fairbairn was an aspiring pilot, and reported as being greatly interested in learning how to control the Hudson at low airspeed. Whether this is true or not will never be determined, due to the passage of time, and the total destruction of the Hudson. The mystery behind the Canberra Lockheed Hudson disaster of 1940 Here's an excellent snippet of a Chapter from a recent book on the Canberra Hudson crash. I know you'll be eager to get your hands on the full copy, now. The Lockheed Hudson - "not a machine for the careless or the ham fisted" 1
facthunter Posted November 6, 2018 Posted November 6, 2018 Considered a difficult plane, It's probably just not well analysed, and understood. Like many, of the period, It's C of G is critical and IF you have "effective" flaps you are changing the nature of the plane significantly, when you alter them down or up.. Many designs of the period has "simple" flaps that mainly increase drag with a relatively small decrease in stall speed.. Modern Jets have a complex speed /flap setting retract/extend schedule which even varies on actual AUW at the time.. If you pull the flaps up too quickly you fall out of the sky. like a BOAC Trident did in the UK. Nev
onetrack Posted November 6, 2018 Posted November 6, 2018 It's interesting to note that Adastra ran 7 Hudsons for many years, doing aerial surveys, and Adastra lost 4 of the 7 in crashes - all at low level - and only 1 was on takeoff, the other 3 crashes were on landing approach. Ad Astra Hudsons By far the most revealing, and I believe, fairly accurate eyewitness report of the Canberra Hudson crash, was from the manager of the Texaco oil depot at Queenbeyan, Darcy Vest - who was around a mile from the crash site, and who had an excellent view of the Hudson, and who was watching it steadily, as it came in to land. He reported that the Hudson appeared to lose altitude rapidly right after being throttled back, and this rapid loss of height appeared to him, to make the aircraft too low to clear the hills between the aircraft and the airstrip. He opined that this developing situation had been realised by the pilot, who then made two "quarter turns to the left". After the second quarter turn, it became obvious that a stall was imminent, and the aircraft was then seen to go rapidly nose-down in a corkscrew pattern, and impact the terrain, "almost vertically". Trove - eyewitness accounts of Canberra Hudson crash It is inexplicable that an experienced pilot such as Bob Hitchcock would make such a gross aircraft handling error, in turning sharply left on approach, at relatively low speed, and without a corresponding increase in power. Thus the conjecture that someone with a low level of piloting experience was actually at the controls. Andrew Tink conjectures it was Fairbairn - but all the evidence points to Dick Wiesener, as the co-pilot under Hudson conversion, as the person responsible for the crash. Wieseners piloting skills assessment by his CFI was less than flattering. "(Wiesener) Thinks very slowly and not very deeply. Generally an erratic and inconsistent pupil who will have to be watched carefully and prevented from developing wrong conclusions in his rather unusual train of thought. Reactions slow. Progress to be watched carefully." Chapter 4 - Second seat - Dick Wiesener
facthunter Posted November 6, 2018 Posted November 6, 2018 I cannot conceive of the Captain vacating his seat in flight and letting someone else not endorsed and only under the control of a relatively (sus)) F/O fly it and land it from there. You would normally (IF putting a minister, even an informed and keen one, in an aircraft seat is ever normal) have him in the RH seat and YOU remain in control, and best able to reach all controls and do what you are trained to do. Be the PIC.. Nev 1
derekliston Posted November 9, 2018 Posted November 9, 2018 Nev, just a slight correction. BOAC never operated Tridents, it was BEA or after the merger BA. Some interesting history with the Tridents but I don’t want to be responsible for thread drift.
Marty_d Posted November 9, 2018 Author Posted November 9, 2018 Drift away Derek, it was just a little tidbit I wanted to share, but happy for the thread to go in new and interesting directions!
facthunter Posted November 10, 2018 Posted November 10, 2018 No problem there. I wasn't quite sure which of the amalgamated airline (s) (BEA , BOAC) flew them. They were similar to a B 727 but not as good. Neither has a very large range. the B 727 had very effective flaps and was trying to be able to be used in small runway length situations. For high altitude ops it even had brakes on the nosewheels. for the high speed accelerate-stop situation.. This follows on from the concept of more sophisticated type of plane evolving just before and after the War.. Both the Beech Twin and the Lockeed were still tail wheel planes with all the problems that entails. Nev
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