Lion Air Accident - Emergency AD for B737 max-8

[Garfly]

https://theaircurrent.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/B737-MAX-AD-1107.pdf

 

FAA Issues Emergency Airworthiness Directive Against Boeing 737 Max 8

 

 

[Tony]

What they are going to do on landing and take off ?

 

 

[Garfly]

https://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/Runaway-Terror-231851-1.html

 

https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Pilots-Not-Told-About-737-MAX-Auto-Trim-System-Updated-231846-1.html

 

 

[Garfly]

 

 

 

 

[Garfly]

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/faa-evaluates-a-potential-design-flaw-on-boeings-737-max-after-lion-air-crash/

 

Interesting to revisit this documentary from 2014 which argues that Boeing went downhill after swallowing MD..

 

 

 

 

 

[poteroo]

My greatest concern with this accident is that the aircraft was flown by 3 different crews over the preceding 3 days, and they all experienced trim problems. However, these crews were smart enough to disable the autopilot trim system and hand fly the 737 to a safe conclusion. It's now evident that not all crews were this resourceful.

 

For reasons unknown, they either,

 

1 - failed to report it via writing in the official system, or

 

2 - reported it verbally, or

 

3 - thought no more about it as they had fixed the system, or

 

4 - they did correctly report it - but it was returned to line with the problem remaining. Which begs the question - how?

 

This reminds me of the 'bad old days' in PNG, where you were unwise to put anything on the MR except a complete engine failure. (assuming you survived!)  Companies had unwritten 'rules' that any issues went onto a 'snag-sheet',  which I'm sure didn't ever reach the retained paperwork system. 

 

 

[Yenn]

The obvious outcomeof all this, is that it is best to avoid Lionair and similar airlines. If the crews are not reporting defects they are contributing to circumstances that will result in their jobs disappearing.

 

 

[Garfly]

 

 

 

 

[Thruster88]

3 hours ago, Garfly said:

 

Why do people who can't say flight data recorder make these videos 

 

 

[Garfly]

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

The recovery technique used on earlier versions was NOT suitable for this version and the differences course did not bother to mention the system or how it worked even in other countries as Boeing thought the pilots didn't need to know about it. This was publicly stated by one of their senior executives.. It was designed to work automatically to reduce the angle of attack by actuating forward  STABILISER trim at high altitudes primarily. (I presume)  When a sensor  or sensors fail all bets are off with this type of system logic. The pilot in this case fought the plane for an agonizing time to it's inevitable fate having not been informed of the "problem " pre flight as the pilot the previous day had. From what I know, I don't blame the crew at all for this tragic event. You need to be careful where you get your information from. Recovery of the CVR will help clarify the situation.  The Company have decided to spend dollars to search for it .  There are strong currents in that area which haven't helped. Nev

 

 

[Downunder]

Not informing buyers of the new systems was also part of their marketing I think. .... Boeing wanted to present it as the same as previous 737's so existing 737 owners would view it as an "upgraded" model rather than "new" and therefore it was implied it would cost buyers less in crew training, maintenance etc.

 

Introducing it as a different new or completely new model with different systems and crew training, widened the market for potential buyers into other brands (Airbus).

 

I fully blame Boeing's marketing for leaving out important info altogether or suppressing it's importance....

 

 

[facthunter]

 They run a "differences" course but don't tell you about the differences. They are now altering the "software". Bit late for 189 people and the Companies reputation. There used to be a saying... "If it's not Boeing I'm not going" All the systems are made by the same manufacturer (Honeywell) but the system LOGIC varied. There was usually less "Mystery" with The LAZY "B". "What's the bloody thing doing now?" stuff. It's a trend to leave the Pilot out of the loop as not being important.. Airbus started the "pilot safe" aeroplane myth.  Nev

 

 

[Garfly]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/26/world/asia/lion-air-crash-12-minutes.html

 

 

[Student Pilot]

Things will not change with Indonesian aviation after this accident. 

 

 

[Thruster88]

 They run a "differences" course but don't tell you about the differences. They are now altering the "software". Bit late for 189 people and the Companies reputation. There used to be a saying... "If it's not Boeing I'm not going" All the systems are made by the same manufacturer (Honeywell) but the system LOGIC varied. There was usually less "Mystery" with The LAZY "B". "What's the bloody thing doing now?" stuff. It's a trend to leave the Pilot out of the loop as not being important.. Airbus started the "pilot safe" aeroplane myth.  Nev

The pilots were facing a runaway trim, why it was happening does not matter.

 

As you would know facthunter all ?  737's have 2 large trim wheels tha rotate whenever trim is happening and 2 switches to stop electric trim, one stops autopilot trim and the other stop ALL electric trim even the MCAS ?.

 

I am only a PPL and have only looked at a 737 POH for five minutes but i have always been aware of runaway electric trim as any pilot should be. It's  a shame the CVR can't  be found.

 

 

[tillmanr]

ABC and other news reporting CVR found