Required build regs for RA training aircraft

[SpannaChucka]

G'day all, 

 

Looking for some black and white information to help us move forward with a few decisions, getting a bit tired of trolling through CASA pubs and RA tech manual.

 

What are the requirements to put aircraft online with training schools (RA, not GA).

 

Particularly; built to which specs (ATSM, FAA LSA, etc..) factory manufactured, rego etc..

 

I have been to many schools and seen so many different types available for training, just looking to pick your brains.

 

Thank you all in advance!

 

 

[kgwilson]

As far as I am aware the aircraft must be a RAA-Aus approved factory manufactured aircraft and be 24 registered. Maintenance is therefore by L2 or higher. The only exception is if you build your own aircraft to an approved design or kit and it is 19 registered, you and only you can be trained in this aircraft.

 

 

[giantkingsquid]

As far as I am aware the aircraft must be a RAA-Aus approved factory manufactured aircraft and be 24 registered.

 

I did my ab-initio in a 23 registered Jab.

 

 

[Downunder]

I'm not sure there are any defined standards. As I see it, the manufacturer "self certifies" factory built aircraft.

 

Oscar could probably set that straight but I don't think he's posted for some time.... hope he's ok?

 

If it was me, I'd look at working with a kit manufacturer to produce "factory" aircraft.

 

I believe you can buy the Zenith range of aircraft as factory built, at least in the states.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Nothing is set in concrete !.

 

I was caught out, Hummel Birds flying & registered. BUT when I came to the time for final inspection RAA CHANGED the RULES.

 

18 builder's on my list and none were registered after rule change, existing flying H B's were "Grandfathered" 

 

Except one Rotax powered H B in the 19 category.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Swish Projects]

Hi Spanna,

 

I am the Zenith distributor in Aus/NZ.

 

As I understand it, the aircraft must be an approved LSA.  This means an ASTM LSA Approved model, built by a factory-approved facility in accordance with the ASTM LSA Standard.  

 

The facility is indeed 'self-certified', but it's not really a quick or inexpensive process.  In the case of Zenith Aitcraft, we only have two of our six main products LSA Certified - the CH650B, and the CH750STOL.

 

If I were to build these to be registeted LSA, they must be built EXACTLY as per the approved specs.  Same engines, instruments etc.  It would cost me around $150 000 to become compliant (send every worker to the US for three months training).  I can bring in LSA from the US, and you will have no problems putting them on the line here.

 

If the aircraft is for you or your 'fellow builders' to learn to fly in, then you can do that in an aircraft that you have built.

 

If it is an investment or a tax deduction you are after, then you will need to buy a new LSA Certified aircraft, or a used one with impeccable paperwork.

 

Message me if you like and once I understand your needs I can point you in the right direction.

 

 

[kgwilson]

All of the Jabirus & Foxbats I know of in Flying Schools are not LSAs. They are factory built 24 registered Ultralights.

 

 

[kasper]

Has nobody ever bothered reading the RAAus ops manual?

 

basic rule is to be used for flight training or reward it must meet two requirements 

 

1. Factory built to an accepted standard - it might have a variety of reg sequence numbers depending in which standard and when built/registered. 

 

2. It must be maintained and srerviced by an RAAus approved L2 or above. 

 

They are the rules and they have been the rules since the early 1990’s

 

if you’re new to RAAus aircraft look in the tech manual at the registration sequences in

 

section 5.1

 

paragraph 10.2

 

and the only caution on that table is that if it’s a flexwing the 32- sequence includes both factory built and home assembled from factory kit.  Everything else is very easy to identify as factory/approved/accepted 

 

and spacesailor ... you have to let it go. It was the GOVERNMENT not RAAus that changed the LAW more than 20 years ago stopping 10- reg for Hummelbirds BUT 19- reg has been available to hummelbirds  for the past 20 years. 

 

 

[facthunter]

 I thought the Hummel was right on the edge of the stallspeed or wing loading. It's a beaut little plane. Re the build your own and some one CAN train YOU in it. No one can force an instructor to do that.  They MAY choose to and they may not. There's some I'd fly and some I wouldn't get under when it flew over. (if you know what I mean).  LSA was always a dead end (a blind alley)  You got a small weight increase at a high penalty. what IF the maker goes out of business ?. What IF it's got a major fault  that needs a major rectification?   OK there's EXP GA  ( but no training  use) and you could have been exp GA from the start  a lot cheaper. and built a plane YOU wanted. Nev

 

 

[SpannaChucka]

Thanks all, I thought as much, just wanted to check with the round table here on the forum! Cheers for all the responses, I appreciate the time you took to comment.

 

Thanks