Phil Perry Posted January 20, 2019 Posted January 20, 2019 Following the very short AAIB report Posted earlier re the CTSW here is an interesting one about a very high hours pilot who had some sort of problem. Two Fatalities. Look at the detail in this report, it is staggering in detail by comparison. I was deeply interested in this as I originally learned to fly in the same type. . . https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c1114f040f0b60c8701aa7b/DH82A_Tiger_Moth_G-ADXT_01-19.pdf
Phil Perry Posted January 20, 2019 Author Posted January 20, 2019 If you 'Fast Forward' to pages 69 & 70. . the suggestion for 'Cause' are shown, although due to the damage these are 'Suggestions' . . . using all the known data plus witness statements. Very thorough report though. . . . Good ole' AAIB. . . and another reference to the excellent Australian study on the problems which can arise AND BE COMPLICATED BY 'Partial Power loss' situations.
djpacro Posted January 20, 2019 Posted January 20, 2019 "At about 200 ft agl, the aircraft pitched suddenly and significantly nose down before descending in a left turn from which it did not recover before striking the surface of a crop field. The reason for this final manoeuvre was not determined." There are many instances of stall/spin accidents in Tiger Moths, often following an engine failure. I note the comment about "benign stall characteristics at between 45-49 mph IAS, adopting a high angle of attack and rate of descent with the stick held full back and no tendency to drop a wing" - well, that depends on where the ball is. 2
pmccarthy Posted January 20, 2019 Posted January 20, 2019 Same story, different country At about 1710 on 27 January 2012, a De Havilland Aircraft Pty Ltd DH-82A Tiger Moth aircraft, registered VH-GVA, took off from Maryborough Airport, Victoria, with two people on board. Immediately after lift-off, the aircraft was observed to have a partial, intermittent power loss. The pilot continued the flight with the aircraft maintaining altitude or climbing slightly. At the upwind end of the runway, the aircraft made a climbing left turn before stalling and descending. The aircraft impacted the ground and the occupants received fatal injuries. The aircraft was seriously damaged by the accident forces and post-impact fire. https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2012/aair/ao-2012-017.aspx
facthunter Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 The only time you have the stick right back in a Tiger moth is just before and after touching down in the 3 point attitude. or deliberately putting it into a spin. Most people wheel them on today .You are going to use a lot more runway, when you do, and you can still ground loop it but at a higher speed. The DH 82 is a pretty "dirty" aircraft. (Lots of drag) With power off and from a slow approach the flare is quite positive or the wheels will hit the ground first with a fair sink rate and pitch the nose up. Ideally, the tailskid just kisses the ground and then the mains just after.. Why has the 3 pointer virtually disappeared? Are people frightened of it? It's not difficult. People soloed in 8 hours. No radio and not much traffic though.. The LANDING is just one part of flying but the bit most notice and emphasise.. Nev. 1
kaz3g Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 Same story, different country At about 1710 on 27 January 2012, a De Havilland Aircraft Pty Ltd DH-82A Tiger Moth aircraft, registered VH-GVA, took off from Maryborough Airport, Victoria, with two people on board. Immediately after lift-off, the aircraft was observed to have a partial, intermittent power loss. The pilot continued the flight with the aircraft maintaining altitude or climbing slightly. At the upwind end of the runway, the aircraft made a climbing left turn before stalling and descending. The aircraft impacted the ground and the occupants received fatal injuries. The aircraft was seriously damaged by the accident forces and post-impact fire. https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2012/aair/ao-2012-017.aspx Very sad event. The pilot flew the Tiger out from UK and had a lot of time in it. Also had several other aircraft including a very nice Chippie just recently sold. Straight ahead and sacrifice aeroplane rather than occupants generally the best option. Maryborough has long over-runs but a fair bit of timber off the ends interspersed amongst small farms. The dirt cross-strip is interesting because it runs uphill from the sealed strip and provides another alternative with built in braking. kaz
Downunder Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 The youtube video of the Tiger moth accident with the wing walker always reminds me how suddenly it all happens and goes wrong. Stall and left turn spiral into the ground. I won't post it here as it's pretty horrific.
facthunter Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 THAT incident has been incorrectly analysed as a stall, spin but it's caused by rudder cable attach crank failure. Rudder goes hard over one way when that happens.. No pilot could have prevented it. Tiger moths haven't been used for that demo since as the drag is "too much too high" requiring more forward elevator effect than is available to effectively control pitch. Nev
turboplanner Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 THAT incident has been incorrectly analysed as a stall, spin but it's caused by rudder cable attach crank failure. Rudder goes hard over one way when that happens.. No pilot could have prevented it. Tiger moths haven't been used for that demo since as the drag is "too much too high" requiring more forward elevator effect than is available to effectively control pitch. Nev You may be thinking of a different crash; this is the ATSB report for the one at Luskintyre. https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/24258/ASOR199401106.PDF
facthunter Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 Yes . that's the one I was referring to. Nev
Roundsounds Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 There have been a number of Tigers suffer engine failures as the result of the prorective coating on the cork float in the carburettor cracking. The crack allows fuel to enter the cork, as the engine warms it causes the coating to expand and can make the float stick and lead to a rich or lean situation. Very hard to identify if the aircraft has caught fire. There is a well documented accident in WA explaining this fault, I’ll try to find the report. It would be very easy to attribute this type of failure to carb ice. The WA accident report says it is a know fault observed by people performing overhauls, yet no AD issued. I will not fly Tigers any longer as a result, the last endorsement I knocked back had an unexplained engine failure on takeoff resulting in an off field landing and damage. 1
Roundsounds Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 There have been a number of Tigers suffer engine failures as the result of the prorective coating on the cork float in the carburettor cracking. The crack allows fuel to enter the cork, as the engine warms it causes the coating to expand and can make the float stick and lead to a rich or lean situation. Very hard to identify if the aircraft has caught fire. There is a well documented accident in Qld explaining this fault, It would be very easy to attribute this type of failure to carb ice. ATSB report. 1
Roundsounds Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/4930550/199805459.pdf
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