Jabiru LSA vs 160

[anjum_jabiru]

Hi everyone, I recently had an opportunity of flying a Jabiru J 160 at my local flying school. Having done most of my training in a Jabiru LSA, I found the flight controls on a J 160 way too heavy. Is this because of the larger control surfaces such as the rudder, elevator and ailerons in the J 160 compared to the LSA? Or is it due to the heavy wing loading on the J 160 as it is a much heavier aircraft with the same wings of an LSA? Has anyone else experienced the difference in the control pressures required while flying these 2 different models? Has anyone flown the Pipistrel Alpha Trainer, after flying the Jabiru LSA or J 160, and noted any similarities or differences in the control pressures between the J 160, LSA and the Pipistrel Alpha trainer? Thanks ?

 

 

[kgwilson]

I've not flown either but did my conversion from GA in a J170. The controls of a 170 are pretty light but the wing is much bigger than a 160, I think the same as a 230 & the fuel is in the wings which does not affect the CoG like a fuselage mounted tank does. I have found that most low wing aircraft controls are lighter than high wing. When moving from a C150 to a C172 you need to set the trim well or you find the controls very heavy. Not so for a PA28-181.

 

 

[facthunter]

Push pull cable systems, (more friction) never have the good feel of rods and cranks, The size of the control surface and the plane's speed  are the main factors in control forces. Of course you can  (and should) trim the elevator out but that doesn't change the friction in the cable.  Some trim systems are only a spring that pushes/pulls the  control to the new position.  It's the sort of thing you notice when you first get into another plane after a fair bit of time in the previous one.. You get used to it pretty quickly.. Nev

 

 

[yampy]

I’ve flown both the LSA and J160 albeit some years ago . I seem to recall that the J160 was slightly heavier on control input , but not overly so . The main difference that I remember was the very sluggish climb rate of the J160 compared to the LSA model . It seemed to rely on the curvature of the Earth to get any rate at all , particularly on a hot day .

 

 

[Deskpilot]

quote. It seemed to rely on the curvature of the Earth to get any rate at all , particularly on a hot day .

 

I've only flown the LSA which climbs like an angle. Your comment is brilliant in it's description and very funny.

 

 

[Litespeed]

"Curvature of the earth", that is funny.

 

But they are not quite that bad.

 

A Cherokee 140 on the other hand relies on the madly sweating pilot and passengers stink to repel from the ground. Even mother nature has a sense of smell.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's an old saying that was applied to some of the earlier big piston transports. I recall one that had 4 engines and max wt 72,000 lbs and max cruise engine power around 3400 Hp. total that works out at 106 HP for each ton of plane, Allowing for the climb TO and climb fuel burn . Hardly overpowered. I recall one day it had made 2500 feet by Katherine  out of Darwin.. Nev

 

 

[giantkingsquid]

"Curvature of the earth", that is funny.

But they are not quite that bad.

 

A Cherokee 140 on the other hand relies on the madly sweating pilot and passengers stink to repel from the ground. Even mother nature has a sense of smell.

Took me 37 mins to get to 9,500 ft at just under MTOW on a 25° day once ?

 

 

[Methusala]

My Volksplane would make 250fpm on a good day!

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Try an Airtourer 100 on a hot day.

 

 

[facthunter]

 I did … Once, when they first came out. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Airtourer and about 40 degrees at Whyalla. It was good that the country was flat. Later there was a notice to the effect that they should not be flown in above a certain temperature I seem to remember.

 

A few years ago I flew a C150 in about 32 degree heat out of rocky. Did a PFL as part of my flight review and I nearly landed it when the instructor said go round. I was below the tree tops and could have landed easily and left him there and walked away. I doubt he would have got it off the ground from a standstill. We only just cleared the fence.

 

 

[onetrack]

Spare a thought for the poor buggers flying the Double Sunrise Qantas PBY Catalinas, Perth to Ceylon, during WW2. 

 

About 4 tons overweight on takeoff with monstrous additional fuel tanks fitted, they took off from Melville Water at Crawley, running 48 inches of MP and with the P&W R-1830's producing their intermittent maximum power of 1200HP each.

 

They took up to 80 seconds to get clear of the Swan River, and with a climb rate that could be only be called "leisurely", they generally only just cleared the Fremantle railway/road bridges by around 100 feet, some 12 miles downstream.

 

I have not seen any times quoted for the Catalinas to reach their 1500' initial Westbound cruise altitude, but I would not be surprised if it was around 20 minutes or more.

 

 

[Litespeed]

You know it is a bit marginal when the pilot handbook quotes climb in...

 

Feet per hour