A way to do 60 circuits in a single hour!

[Garfly]

 

 

 

 

[Downunder]

Why does he have to keep letting go of the stick?

 

Someone mentioned in another thread the poor ergonomics some have.....

 

 

[Garfly]

Yeah, as is normal with the Skyranger, he needs to swap hands to operate the flap lever and then he relies on his first-officer/photographer to pull full nose-up trim turning final. (Not so normal)  ?

 

 

[kgwilson]

Obviously a speed comp. Not legal at any normal aerodrome. An engine out at any point other than very short final & he would have been somewhere other than the strip. That aeroplane made a lot of horrible noises not associated with the engine.

 

 

[Garfly]

 That aeroplane made a lot of horrible noises not associated with the engine.

Ha, ha ... it's not called the flying bedstead for nothing.

 

(Bedsteads are, of course, notorious for horrible noises not directly associated with motor activity.)

 

Obviously a speed comp. Not legal at any normal aerodrome. 

Yes, it's an organised sport activity, clearly not legal (and, yes, certainly cautionable) out of that context.  That being said, though, I'd personally fly with that pilot anywhere, anytime. I'd count him a safer operator than I would myself, despite (due?) my law-abiding timidity at stick and rudder.  (A condition I hope further training will fix.)

 

I was pondering this issue, today, when I happened upon this post in the comments section of an Air Facts journal article:

 

Mike McMains

 

April 29, 2015 at 11:19 pm

 

"With over 100 years of experience by humans trying to emulate the skills of nature’s natural aviators, the birds, I find it disheartening that CFIs, courtesy of CFR part 91, still try to make pilots believe that angle of bank becomes dangerous at the magic 30 degrees. I sincerely believe that the FAA is at fault in many of these turn to final stall accidents due to their scaring these aviators into believing such BS, thus causing the pilot to enter the panic mode, uncoordinated flight and subsequently exceeding critical angle of attack. The 30 degree angle of bank rule is wrong, dead wrong. It teaches CFIs and student pilots to fear the airplane instead of learning to fly it. It teaches that numbers on an instrument panel and rules in the FARs keep aircraft aloft. They do not. They are only tools. I was trained to fly supersonic aircraft with tiny wings landing at nearly 200 mph close to 50 years ago. I confess, however, that I really learned to fly (after my six years in the USAF) as a “duster pilot.” In my 8 years flying these bi-planes in Texas rice country, I didn’t once see a functioning airspeed indicator or any other flight instrument, for that matter. Why didn’t I crash? I was making turns to final about once every minute all day long at an altitude of maybe 100 feet AGL with most turns at angles of bank exceeding 45 degrees once the max gross weight dropped a bit with the payload decreasing. In the late 1990’s when the A-320 was fairly new, they told us we were being upgraded from pilots to Flight Systems Managers. I’m retired now, but they seem to be changing their minds now about being a manager instead of a pilot. There is no doubt that an airplane can be taken from point A to point B for an entire career by following the rules and the numbers. But stuff happens, and when it does, being able to fly your way out of it can be a good thing. Climb up to altitude with someone qualified to help you, cover up the flight instruments and learn the difference between attitude (pitch & roll) and angle of attack. If you learn to fly by angle of attack, you will be a better and safer VFR pilot (hint-no AOA indicator needed on the panel). Keep those wings flying. Only angle of attack does that."

 

Excerpted from:

 

https://airfactsjournal.com/2015/04/never-bank-30-degrees-pattern-lessons/

 

 

[Student Pilot]

Interesting Kaptain Gazza, I see he suggested AOA not needed on panel ? The Lone Ranger certainly has unconventional style to it, a sort of very appealing Noddy car styling. I shall do some viewing on the University of life (YooTubby) and loogit what a Sky Ranger Yukusa can do.

 

Hot weather coming to and end now, time for a decent cross country?

 

 

[Garfly]

Hey Wing Commander,

 

Well, "appealing Noddy car styling" is much better than "agricultural" as a descriptor.  ?

 

Yeah, as I've said before, I regard AoA indicators like training wheels for young (in hours) pilots.

 

Useful to bolster the confidence of the under experienced till they develop a natural feel for the (unnatural) job of flying the wing.

 

That is, until they come to know in their bones what birds and, to a slightly lesser extent, the likes of Cap'n Mike (above) - and y'good self - know in theirs/yours. 

 

Used well, and under supervision, I reckon the AoA thingy should lead a would-be flyer to "stop fearing the aircraft and start flying it". 

 

As to SKRA vids online, yes, you can find many - including some great ones on this site if you search.

 

Here are a few random samples you might not have come across.

 

And yes, indeed, it is about time I grasped the nettle and took off on that long cross-country to the great southland.

 

(I've had a new radio put in and she's just had her annual inspection.)

 

Hope to see ya, soon!

 

 

 

 

 

[kgwilson]

AOA indicators are for people who don't fly the aeroplane they fly the instruments.

 

 

[Student Pilot]

AOA indicators are for people who don't fly the aeroplane they fly the instruments.

I think Garfly has a point, for those who haven't had much flying it would give you some idea until a feel is developed, depending on how much training/flying is done it can take a while to develop. Till you feel comfortable flying looking outside most of the time the instruments are the way to tell what the aircraft is doing. Those of us who have done a bit of flying take it for granted but there is a lot to learn and it can't be learnt overnight, takes time.

 

 

[Garfly]

AOA indicators are for people who don't fly the aeroplane they fly the instruments.

 

Well, yes, those and a motley bunch of others too easily persuaded by ...

 

"the General Aviation Joint Steering Committee (GAJSC), which is co-chaired by Air Safety Institute and the FAA, encourages the use of AOA indicators in general aviation aircraft. The group recently released a study of accidents attributed to loss-of-control over a 10-year period and found AOA indicators and education to have the greatest potential for preventing similar accidents." GA NEWS

 

and:

 

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2011/june/pilot/technique-aoa-for-ga

 

and a few others, again, who see them as an aid, precisely, in learning how to feel the wing; how not to manoeuvre by

 

 instruments.

 

(Which may have something to do with their usually being mounted on the glare shield in peripheral vision only - precisely to wean pilots away from the instrument panel and towards the world out there.)

 

 

[Blueadventures]

Yeah, as is normal with the Skyranger, he needs to swap hands to operate the flap lever and then he relies on his first-officer/photographer to pull full nose-up trim turning final. (Not so normal)  ?

Hi Gary  I have no trouble adjusting flap with left hand.  Just takes getting the nack of reaching over and down.  I reckon its heaps safer to have right hand on stick (Left seat flying).  I'd hate to see a miss at grabbing the stick again due to some wind affecting the sticks position and resulting in the pilot knocking the stick by missing the grab.

 

 

[Blueadventures]

8 hours ago, Garfly said:

 

Hey Wing Commander,

 

Well, "appealing Noddy car styling" is much better than "agricultural" as a descriptor.  ?

 

Yeah, as I've said before, I regard AoA indicators like training wheels for young (in hours) pilots.

 

Useful to bolster the confidence of the under experienced till they develop a natural feel for the (unnatural) job of flying the wing.

 

That is, until they come to know in their bones what birds and, to a slightly lesser extent, the likes of Cap'n Mike (above) - and y'good self - know in theirs/yours. 

 

Used well, and under supervision, I reckon the AoA thingy should lead a would-be flyer to "stop fearing the aircraft and start flying it". 

 

As to SKRA vids online, yes, you can find many - including some great ones on this site if you search.

 

Here are a few random samples you might not have come across.

 

And yes, indeed, it is about time I grasped the nettle and took off on that long cross-country to the great southland.

 

(I've had a new radio put in and she's just had her annual inspection.)

 

Hope to see ya, soon!

 

Nice videos and scenery.  I'm absolutely rapt in the Skyranger; can't see the value or performance in the Bushcats; must be a tail wheel thing.

 

 

[Student Pilot]

The old "You have to have a tailwheel to call yourself a bush pilot" rubbish. Although I see in the vid they call it a "Bushplane" (that's something you scrape or level wood with outside metropolitin areas) the Bushcat if it has nose or tailwheel. 

 

A 182 is as good a short field aircraft as a 180, a Fletcher is as capable as a Beaver. It's not one or the other is best, both are great.

 

If the ground is too rough for a 182 then you probably shouldn't be landing there. Some devotees quote all sorts of areas where nosewheels can't go because their too "fragile", poppycock I say. If it's that rough then use the ultimate stol machine, a Jetranger or a Robo heelokoptar ?

 

 

[facthunter]

 Nosewheels on any plane are never strong enough to take the load that can be put on them if things aren't normal. They ARE a weak point... A bit of a ditch or a rabbit hole can dispense with most of them on light aircraft. They also get a lot of stone damage to the strut which lets the gas and oil out when the seal dies. Nev

 

 

[Student Pilot]

 Nosewheels on any plane are never strong enough to take the load that can be put on them if things aren't normal. They ARE a weak point... A bit of a ditch or a rabbit hole can dispense with most of them on light aircraft. They also get a lot of stone damage to the strut which lets the gas and oil out when the seal dies. Nev

All those points have some truth to them Nev but............................................ 

 

A tailwheels weak point is the tailwheel, many days I have spent with the rear end jacked up repairing bearings/pivot/tyre/rim/springs on aircraft from 180, 185, 188, Pawnee, Pacer, Brave, Callair, Air Tractors, Thrush and Beavers all have a weak point with tailwheels on rougher strips. In fact even the main gear on tailwheels can be damaged with mounting points on leaf spring undercarriage, separator plates on the rubbers and main crossmember on a Beaver undercarriage and mounting points for oleo's on Piper mainwheel pivots being some weaker area's. 

 

The best aircraft I have come across for rough strips was a Fletcher (Happens to be a nosewheel), the oleo undercarriage is the strongest and most pliant for Ag strips on any any machine I've worked.

 

So you see a nosewheel does not have exclusivity with fragile construction working out of rough strips. 

 

 

[Garfly]

The Fletcher arrangement:

 

(or does that Air Tractor have a man-sized tw?)

 

 

 

 

[Garfly]

Hi Gary  I have no trouble adjusting flap with left hand.  Just takes getting the nack of reaching over and down.  I reckon its heaps safer to have right hand on stick (Left seat flying).  I'd hate to see a miss at grabbing the stick again due to some wind affecting the sticks position and resulting in the pilot knocking the stick by missing the grab.

Thanks for the idea Mike, I'll certainly try it next time I'm sitting in the LoneRanger ?

 

But it might be that your flap lever is somehow easier to operate than mine.

 

I've gotten used to doing the stick-shift-shuffle, like this guy:

 

Go to 03:45.   No need to watch the whole thing.

 

 

 

 

 

[nomadpete]

Sixty second circuits?

 

Can't call that circuits. He's doing donuts!

 

 

[hihosland]

Why does he have to keep letting go of the stick?

Someone mentioned in another thread the poor ergonomics some have.....

 If I need to use my right hand for anything including flaps then left hand on the stick works well.

 

If correctly  trimmed  there should be no need to touch the stick for the interval needed to adjust the flaps

 

certainly attitude changes with flap setting changes but not violently nor dramatically enough that no

 

hand on the stick creates any potential hazard.

 

Skyranger is a very benign aircraft to fly and any in likely atmospheric upset a trimmed Skyranger will 

 

return to its original condition without any control imputs

 

 

[kaz3g]

Yeah, as is normal with the Skyranger, he needs to swap hands to operate the flap lever and then he relies on his first-officer/photographer to pull full nose-up trim turning final. (Not so normal)  ?

I do that all the time in the Auster...takes two hands these days to get full flap out. Stick between the legs.

 

kaz

 

 

[Garfly]

A couple of articles from Aviation Safety urging us to practise, practise, practise manoeuvring flight.

 

Maneuvers

 

Is there any reason to keep practicing them after the checkride? Which ones?

 

Sports coaches, music teachers, and creative writing instructors all encounter people who just enjoy practicing—sometimes more than they want to play, perform or publish. If you’re one of those folks who find joy in doing turns around a point or steep spirals, more power to you. Go forth, have fun and don’t feel obliged to finish reading this article.

 

But if you struggled to get the knack of flight maneuver exercises that often seemed far removed from the realities of coaxing an aircraft between Points A and B, you have our sympathy. Training for the private and commercial certificates in particular requires learning to master maneuvers whose relation to practical aviation is, to put it charitably, not obvious. (If you can envision a situation in which your life depends on being able to fly lazy eights to airman certification standards, by all means write in to describe it, as we can’t.) This raises the question: Having once done them well enough to persuade an examiner to issue a certificate, is there any reason to go on spending flight time and the money it represents maintaining those elusive skills? 

 

http://www.aviationsafetymagazine.com/issues/38_9/features/Maneuvers_11551-1.html

 

http://www.aviationsafetymagazine.com/issues/38_3/features/Procedure-Vs-Technique_11469-1.html

 

 

[Garfly]

 Nosewheels on any plane are never strong enough to take the load that can be put on them if things aren't normal. They ARE a weak point... A bit of a ditch or a rabbit hole can dispense with most of them on light aircraft. They also get a lot of stone damage to the strut which lets the gas and oil out when the seal dies. Nev

This recent article on AvWeb might be of interest in this regard: 

 

https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/McFarlanes-X-Seal-Is-a-Strut-Solution-232344-1.html

 

McFarlane’s X-Seal Is a Strut Solution

 

MARC COOK

 

 

Failure of the nose-strut O-ring seal on many Cessnas is just so familiar. According to McFarlane Aviation Products, one key cause is a rolling deformation of the rubber O-ring on the chrome strut shaft. Enough twisting and the O-ring begins to tear.

 

Instead of a conventional circular cross section, the PMA seal has an X cross section. McFarlane says this design stabilizes the seal and prevents a “rolling action” that can lead to early failure. Dave McFarlane, founder of McFarlane Aviation Products, said, “The O-ring twisting is caused by a sticky film of oxidized MIL-5606 hydraulic oil on the chrome strut that intermittently grabs the O-ring and slightly rolls it as the strut goes up and down. The low system pressure of the Cessna strut design allows the seal roll action as there is very little holding pressure on the seal as compared to high-pressure systems used on other aircraft. This rolling action puts a slight twist in the O-ring that causes unpredictable seal failure.”

 

It’s worth noting that O-ring-sealed motorcycle chains have successfully used a similar, albeit smaller, version of this technology for years, and for the same purpose. McFarlane’s MCSK172-1F seal kit fits a wide range of single-engine Cessnas from the 150 to the 210 as well as the T303 and 337 twins.

 

 

[Thruster88]

I wonder why aircraft don't use normal hydraulic seals made from "plastic" ? They give amazing service life in agriculture and earthmoving machinery hydraulic rams with no maintenance and lots of dirt.

 

 

[kgwilson]

I reckon because aircraft bits have to be checked, tested forever, documented to death, certified, TSOed etc & the process takes years. By then new technologies and products have evolved & the whole process begins again.

 

 

[facthunter]

  The problem I was alluding to is caused by stone damage to the hard chromed strut surface. IF your strut oil is oxidising use a better one. It doesn't run hot and shouldn't be a critical application like Paris Dakar trucks. Nev