advice needed, refuelling of rotax from Gawler to Caloundra

[Bruce Tuncks]

After years of doubting those Rotax engines, it looks like I will soon be doing a delivery flight in a  Dimona with a turbo-Rotax all the way to Caloundra.  Those Rotax engines  sure are more complicated than my trusty Jabiru

 

I have refuelled a Jabiru at Wentworth, but those Rotax engines like mogas, and I don't know if Wentworth has that.

 

What do people do?  Do they use their phones to get a taxi to the town to fill their jerrycans? Or are there places where you can get mogas at the airfield?

 

My proposed route would be Gawler, Renmark, Wentworth, Hillston, Narromine... but then I get out of my familiar zone.

 

One thing from my reading though is to not attempt to cross the Great Divide in suspect weather.

 

Any comments or tips welcome... and yes I will be taking my ozrunways tablet.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

You can use avgas in a rotax no problem..you just have to change the oil in half the time as usual

 

 

[alf jessup]

Flew from West Sale to Ayers Rock and back mid last year, my plane never had a drop of Avgas ever in it up until then, filled with 95 octane unleaded at West Sale then Avgas for the remainder of the trip, 27 hrs on Avgas and not one issue, plugs were even clean when o changed the oil when I got back.

 

only difference was the price of the stuff, other than that it ran perfectly fine.

 

 

[Downunder]

I'll add that avgas can be used at ANY mixed ratio with ulp.... just top up whatever you need.

 

Change the oil at the end of the trip if going back to 100% ulp.

 

I would take the lid off the oil can and remove the strainer and baffles to wipe out the bottom of the can.

 

I've always found some grey lead (?) residue in the bottom after running avgas....... the more removed, the better....

 

 

[ev17ifly2]

After years of doubting those Rotax engines, it looks like I will soon be doing a delivery flight in a  Dimona with a turbo-Rotax all the way to Caloundra.  Those Rotax engines  sure are more complicated than my trusty Jabiru

I have refuelled a Jabiru at Wentworth, but those Rotax engines like mogas, and I don't know if Wentworth has that.

 

What do people do?  Do they use their phones to get a taxi to the town to fill their jerrycans? Or are there places where you can get mogas at the airfield?

 

My proposed route would be Gawler, Renmark, Wentworth, Hillston, Narromine... but then I get out of my familiar zone.

 

One thing from my reading though is to not attempt to cross the Great Divide in suspect weather.

 

Any comments or tips welcome... and yes I will be taking my ozrunways tablet.

I have landed at most of the above airports and had little difficulty in obtaining Mogas. I travelled with 2 x 20 litre fold up bladders from Liquid Containment which are excellent.  At one town a stockman drove us into the servo and at Hillston a council worker loaned us his ute. From memory there was only one occasion where I filled with an avgas shandy.

 

Just make sure your flight plan excludes Willcannia as some in that town aren’t welcoming of pilots. 

 

 

[cscotthendry]

When we do our Outback flights, we just use whatever is available, whether it's 98 mogas or Avgas. The Rotax will happily dine on either. If you use more than 30% Avgas you just have to change the oil every 25 hours. For a simple ferry flight, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

 

[JG3]

Avgas for that length of trip is no problem at all. Good move to drain the oil at destination while it's still hot.

 

Mogas available at Dubbo.

 

Don't know your useful range, but Avgas at Moree, Warick, Toowoomba, Watts Bridge.

 

The best place to drop off the range is just south of Toowoomba, then down the wide valley to the coast.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Thanks JG3, can you do that route without going through controlled airspace?

 

After leaving Narromine, how would you advise? I will have about 200 nm range, the Dimona carries 55 litres with a fuel burn of 18 l/hour at 90 knots. My first idea was Moree to Kingaroy to Caloundra, but this is a long way around.

 

 

[JG3]

Yep easy. Have a look at your Ozrunways.

 

 

[Garfly]

Just out of interest, JG3, is this something like the route you're recommending from Warwick to Caloundra?

 

 

Any thoughts on the alternative via Cunningham Gap and Boonah? 

 

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Sorry to be slow, but just after Warwick, my ozrunways shows D630D, surface to 8,500. Please tell me more about how to do this.

 

 

[Garfly]

Bruce, as I understand it, Danger Areas are not forbidden to us - they just give a warning to be careful (about what, in particular, can be found in ERSA).

 

It's the R areas we have to go around or under (whenever active). Especially the ones associated with Amberley and Oakey up there, as well as the Class E and the Brisbane control zone steps.

 

By my reckoning you don't need to go lower than 4,500 on the route JG3 suggests. That is, as long as you steer clear of the 2.5 Amberley step to the east of that track to Watts Bridge that I was asking about.

 

Of course, if you go the other way, via Boonah then you need to slip between Amberley and Brisbane zones but it can be done at 3, 500 if you steer to the west of the 2.5 Brisbane step.

 

Anyway, we can wait for JG3 and/or other Brissie flyers to give us all more authoritative advice.

 

I flew around these areas a bit with an instructor from Redcliffe a few years ago, so I got to see that it was not as difficult as it seems.

 

But, like yourself, I'd be pretty anxious if it was the first time. 

 

Anyway, I think your route via Kingaroy, maybe with a dog-leg by way of Dalby, to give R654 (Oakey) a wide berth, would, I think, only add 20 minutes to your trip from Moree.

 

Sounds like a great trip. When do you go?

 

 

[JG3]

No not good to cross there.

 

Continue from Warwick almost to Toowoomba then head down the range along the Gatton-Clifton road, then over flat open country to Kilcoy, then east along the Stanley River Valley and on to Caloundra.

 

Cunninghams Gap is some pretty scenic but wild terrain, then have to go around with Amberley control zone if active.

 

That D630D is only a Danger area, not a Restricted area, used for military flight training. So just keep eyes scanning as usual and hope for the best, not much you can do to avoid high speed jets, they have it figured. You still have your same air rules of see and avoid and yield right-of-way when required. No worries, we go thro there all the time and see nothing.

 

 

[M61A1]

You could go Narromine, Moree, Clifton, Watts Bridge, Tracking via Kilcoy/ Archer Falls to  Caloundra. Pretty sure all of those places have avgas available and Clifton is almost on a direct path between Moree and Watts while talking you over better terrain and higher steps under Amberley. Just make sure it hasn't rained at Clifton, the black soil can get a bit sticky.

 

 

[M61A1]

, I think your route via Kingaroy, maybe with a dog-leg by way of Dalby, to give R654 (Oakey) a wide berth, would, I think, only add 20 minutes to your trip from Moree

Oakey is only an issue on weekdays. In any case you can call Oakey ops (listed on ERSA) or listen to ATIS (124.3) which will give you the the status of the area and the time it's due to become active again (if deactivated).

 

Often during school holidays (due to staffing) they are active later in the day like 1000-  2300 local time,  it can depend on their program, but they are quite helpful and easy to talk to especially if you phone them beforehand.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Thanks guys, the weather for Mon 8th and Tues 9th looks good with tail winds at 5000ft. It looks like the  airspace issue will be R265C, which if active will keep me below 4500 from just past Clifton to near Watts bridge.

 

Is this right, and what are the chances of it being active? It looks like the highest bit of ground is near Greenmount   at 2556 ft. Not much below 4,500 ft. I have to confess to being grumpy about being forced lower than I like for  bureaucratic reasons.

 

I notice Gatton Airpark will be to the right of track, so things must be generally ok for flying in the R265C area.

 

After Watts Bridge, it looks ok to climb to 7500 ft  until close to Caloundra when you would be coming down anyway.

 

 

[Garfly]

Oakey is only an issue on weekdays. In any case you can call Oakey ops (listed on ERSA) or listen to ATIS (124.3) which will give you the the status of the area and the time it's due to become active again (if deactivated).

Often during school holidays (due to staffing) they are active later in the day like 1000-  2300 local time,  it can depend on their program, but they are quite helpful and easy to talk to especially if you phone them beforehand.

Okay, good to know. 

 

Regarding the OzRunways depiction of Romeo areas as active or not, I'm wondering just how reliable and just how 'official' that information is. From what I can tell, it is updated regularly and accurately - and is a thousand times more effective than hours old Notams if you can find them.

 

But I'd like to know more about how that information is handled across the country; how it actually reaches our glass screens.  If we learn to trust it (and/or we're permitted to trust it) then flyers would be less inclined to bother Area (and military) controllers with confirmation requests. Any thoughts?

 

 

[M61A1]

Thanks guys, the weather for Mon 8th and Tues 9th looks good with tail winds at 5000ft. It looks like the  airspace issue will be R265C, which if active will keep me below 4500 from just past Clifton to near Watts bridge.

Is this right, and what are the chances of it being active? It looks like the highest bit of ground is near Greenmount   at 2556 ft. Not much below 4,500 ft. I have to confess to being grumpy about being forced lower than I like for  bureaucratic reasons.

 

I notice Gatton Airpark will be to the right of track, so things must be generally ok for flying in the R265C area.

 

After Watts Bridge, it looks ok to climb to 7500 ft  until close to Caloundra when you would be coming down anyway.

Being a weekday, Amberley will most likely be active. 4500' is plenty through there, have a look at google earth, there is a nice valley through there.

 

Okay, good to know. 

Regarding the OzRunways depiction of Romeo areas as active or not, I'm wondering just how reliable and just how 'official' that information is. From what I can tell, it is updated regularly and accurately - and is a thousand times more effective than hours old Notams if you can find them.

 

But I'd like to know more about how that information is handled across the country; how it actually reaches our glass screens.  If we learn to trust it (and/or we're permitted to trust it) then flyers would be less inclined to bother Area (and military) controllers with confirmation requests. Any thoughts?

I never rely on Ozrunways to tell me whether or not they are active. Amberley is an operational base with C-17 traffic coming in in out at any time. Oakey is a training base and their hours tend to be reliable and fixed, they just go home and leave a message on ATIS saying when they will activate again. If they are active, ATIS won't tell you when they will deactivate. That's when a phone call to ops is necessary.

 

 

[JG3]

<<with tail winds at 5000ft.>>

 

Please remember that 5000ft is an IFR altitude, and we MUST NOT fly it...... And it's the lowest IFR so it's popular with short haul IFR aircraft, because when they call control they are assured that "There is no known IFR traffic...", and then they fly it as if there is no traffic at all because they know there should be no VFR aircraft at that altitude. But I have many times heard recreational pilots say that they had found a good tailwind at 5000.....

 

I once had a ride in the righthand seat of an Aero Commander doing courier work from Horsham to Melbourne. He climbed to 5000 then got clearance from control and set the autopilot and proceeded to work on his courier paperwork, and never once scanned his flight path ahead. I watched him closely, and the only times he looked out the screen was to watch a thunderstorm off to the left. I sure wouldn't want to have been cruising along anywhere on that flightpath at 80kts with that 150kt machine boring blindly along.... 

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Thanks JG3, I really didn't know that about 5000 ft.  Maybe that is why RAAus planes were limited to below 5000 ft for years.

 

I have to point out though, that soaring birds often go over 5000 ft. I have seen a whole flock of pelicans at 12,000 ft, so those IFR planes who don't look out the window should take notice of the thermal height and fly above it. 

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Hi Bruce:

 

As you near the range from Clifton, dial up 121.2 on the radio and ask for the status of Amberly airspace. I do it regularly and the controllers are always happy to oblige. They prefer pilots to ask rather than to just blunder into restricted airspace. At 4,500 AMSL you have sufficient clearance over the range and once you clear the range you can drop down to 3,500 no probs. As others have said, track up towards Watts Bridge, then across Mt Brisbane to Kilcoy and up the Woodford valley to Caloundra. It's an easy run, but you will get thermals in that area. It'a always a little bumpy. But by the time you get to Watts Bridge, you're only about 1/2 hour from Caloundra anyway.

 

Flying around Amberley airspace isn't as daunting as you might think. We do it all the time and it has completely de-mystified flying around PRD airspaces for us. Give yourself 100' clearance under the 4,500' step and a couple miles lateral clearance from the lower steps and you're good to go.

 

I wouldn't advise the route between Amberley and Archerfield though. It's only a couple of miles wide in places and there's significant amounts of traffic in and out of YBAF.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Bruce:

 

Here's the run from Watts Bridge to Clifton

 

 

 

 

 

[Kiwi]

"As you near the range from Clifton, dial up 121.2 on the radio and ask for the status of Amberly airspace."

 

Amberly ATIS is on 123.3

 

kiwi

 

 

[M61A1]

How did you go Bruce?