Cunnamulla fatal 14/4/19

[turboplanner]

https://www.queenslandcountrylife.com.au/story/6043756/fatal-plane-crash-at-cunnamulla/

 

 

[turboplanner]

Foxbat but still no real detail: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=223953

 

 

[fly_tornado]

UPDATE: Aviation crash investigators are expected to arrive at a Cunnamulla property tomorrow where a 21-year-old pilot died in a light plane crash on Sunday.

 

Isaac Bain was the sole occupant of the Foxbat A22LS ultralight plane and was contract mustering on Aldville Station north of the rural township when the aircraft crash landed.

 

Condolences to everyone who knew Isaac.

 

 

[Thruster88]

Mustering in fixed wing aircraft has claimed many lives and is anything changing to prevent it in the future ? Constant turning at a height that makes stall recovery very near impossible, visual illusions turning down wind, eyes out the side window, hot, dust devil's,  long hours, hydration. A very high percentage of mustering crashes involve stalling, In Canada they call it the moose turn stall.  

 

 

[Student Pilot]

With GA there is a mustering endorsement, anything similar in RAA? What is the syllabus for low level endo with RAA?

 

 

[old man emu]

Contract mustering in an RAAus plane? Isn't that a tad naughty?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Meat and Livestock Australia need to do something about aerial cattle scaring. McDonalds don't tolerate it and nor should other meat buyers.

 

 

[BlurE]

Just curious, what speed does a Foxbat stall at with just one occupant?

 

I would expect you would have to be both very slow and pulling hard to manage a stall.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Just curious, what speed does a Foxbat stall at with just one occupant?

 

I would expect you would have to be both very slow and pulling hard to manage a stall.

I don't have the Foxbat standard figures, but remember that in a 60 degree turn the g force increases to 2 and the dynamic (resulting) angle of attack is much more critical, and much harder to keep track of. Steeper than 60 degrees it gets even more complicated. If you're focused on hunting cattle, which have a bad habit of doubling back almost instantly it would be easy to pull on a degree of back that would see you drop like a rock. Have a look on the ATSB reports database at "mustering" accidents and you'll see this activity is up at the top end of risk.

 

Not saying this aircraft stalled.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Meat and Livestock Australia need to do something about aerial cattle scaring. McDonalds don't tolerate it and nor should other meat buyers.

Is this in jest, Turbs?

 

As a long-term meat abstainer I oppose cruelty to animals, how in blazes can they be managed without just a little stress? Every blue heeler would be out of work if scaring animals were banned.

 

Campdraughting (arguably Australia's only true home-grown sport) would be closed down.

 

In my experience animals are like us in that they benefit from a bit of sport.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Is this in jest, Turbs?

 

As a long-term meat abstainer I oppose cruelty to animals, how in blazes can they be managed without just a little stress? Every blue heeler would be out of work if scaring animals were banned.

 

Campdraughting (arguably Australia's only true home-grown sport) would be closed down.

 

In my experience animals are like us in that they benefit from a bit of sport.

No, not in jest.

 

I grew up with poddy calf riding as an 8 yo, rooster and greasy pig chases, but times have moved on.

 

I used the term scaring but the more precise term is stressing where the meat is laced with adrenaline, and a certain percent of meat has to be cut out during butchering due to bruising, and animals can at times suffer injuries such as broken legs.

 

I have LPA Accreditation (Livestock Production Assurance Program), and before any animal can leave our property I have to fill out an online form which is sent to Meat & Livestock Australia and the buyer which includes a health statement and details of my accreditation and a statement that the animal complies with the accreditation requirements.

 

LPA Accreditation includes:

 

• treating animals safely and responsibly
   
  
• preparing animals for dispatch
   
  
• adhering to animal welfare practices
   
  

 

I won't cover the lot here, but managing stock starts with the basic instinctive result that if you move to the left the animal will move to the right, you move to the right the animal moves to the left, you move towards the mob, the animals walk away from you. Takes a few years to do that with multiple animals, but they remain calm. If you try to rush it and they become stressed, they panic and are likely to charge off in any direction.

 

Calm animals are stunned to an unconscious state then killed, so if you are a meat abstainer because you don't like cruelty, then you have every reason these days to expect animals are being treated right through the process in accordance with LPA Accreditation.

 

Of course, there may be some cases where people sign off on the documents but breach the conditions.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I applaud your approach to cattle handling, Turbs. Not a lot different to how my parents cared for their dairy cattle, (if you overlook having their calves snatched from them after a few days).

 

Many cattlemen follow the teachings of that innovative American, Temple Grandin.

 

Unfortunately, livestock farming in remote and unforgiving environments will sometimes require more robust management, including scaring animals.

 

We could have quite a discussion about the ethics of this; I believe animals should have a chance to pit their wits against man and his machines, dogs and horses. Perhaps the only excitement in their lives before the bump on the head.

 

This discussion belongs on the Off Topic site.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Unfortunately, livestock farming in remote and unforgiving environments will sometimes require more robust management, including scaring animals.

All livestock producers in Australia received notification of the current National Livestock Identification System in 2016

 

Through 2017 the Federal Government through MLA subsidised the cost of electronic tags, tag readers and other out of pocket expenses.

 

By now there should not be a sheep, goat, or cow which is non-compliant.

 

The more robust management you are taking about, should be a thing of the past.

 

So in answer to Thruster's question in #5, if this fatality was caused by pilot error that may well involve MLA as well as ATSB.

 

 

[old man emu]

Identifying individual animals by electronic tagging using tag readers is well and good when the animals are in yards and are accessible. The problem is getting them into the yards from the vast areas used to graze them. Pushing them together from the air is probably more efficient where they are grazed on extensive areas than by the use of horses or motorcycles. Probably safer, too. We always hear of a mustering related aircraft incident, but how many stockmen have been killed or injured as a result of falls from horses or motor bikes?

 

 

[turboplanner]

With the tags came the accreditation requirements; there is a crossover stress point and aircraft are on the wrong side of it.

 

Hard droving is used by some to get the muster finished faster.

 

 

[poteroo]

Contract mustering in an RAAus plane? Isn't that a tad naughty?

A most unwise statement on someones' part. In GA, yes, you do need both a LL rating plus a mustering endo, (on that rating), in order to muster even your own stock. Many don't bother with all this of course. With RAAus, it's called stock spotting, and is covered in the RAAus 'utility' endorsement. The older, wiser GA mustering pilots do not fly at 15ft and pull 3G in every turn - rather, they use power judiciously, keep 150 ft under them, keep the ball centered, and if stock prove recalcitrant, they call in the motorbikes.

 

happy days,

 

 

[turboplanner]

A most unwise statement on someones' part. In GA, yes, you do need both a LL rating plus a mustering endo, (on that rating), in order to muster even your own stock. Many don't bother with all this of course. With RAAus, it's called stock spotting, and is covered in the RAAus 'utility' endorsement. The older, wiser GA mustering pilots do not fly at 15ft and pull 3G in every turn - rather, they use power judiciously, keep 150 ft under them, keep the ball centered, and if stock prove recalcitrant, they call in the motorbikes.

 

happy days,

Things are changing; see my posts above. Water runs and stock checks can be done at 500' agl, and it's easier to pick a flat spot if there's an engine failure. Droving will just take a little longer.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...The more robust management you are taking about, should be a thing of the past...

The "more robust management" I'm talking about is anything more gentile than quietly nudging stock where you want them to go. This approach is what mostly happens, but sometimes is not possible in rugged and timbered country. What is your reaction when a rouge beast wants to escape to the wild- like you or I would?

 

 

[turboplanner]

The "more robust management" I'm talking about is anything more gentile than quietly nudging stock where you want them to go. This approach is what mostly happens, but sometimes is not possible in rugged and timbered country. What is your reaction when a rouge beast wants to escape to the wild- like you or I would?

Cattle spears are used in the NT for the impossible country and the cattle simply pre-muster themselves into open country. There will always be a cow hanging back with its calf or a bull taking off; the skill is taking a wide enough cut in the first place and getting it pointed at the herd which continues to move forward. The herd instinct does the rest and you can work on the next one. It's possible to do this on horses or ground vehicles without stressing the animal.

[spacesailor]

"By now there should not be a sheep, goat, or cow which is non-compliant."

 

There's a growing band of "Huntsmen" who are making a living (subsistence), out west, off the grow number of "Farrel" cattle, the aren't economically viable, ( possibly because of the Bureaucacy).

 

As well as the Pigs,Goats, & Roo's. They (ferrels) are destroying the meager grazing land, just like the camels did or do out back, and horses on the alpine slopes.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[turboplanner]

"By now there should not be a sheep, goat, or cow which is non-compliant."

 

There's a growing band of "Huntsmen" who are making a living (subsistence), out west, off the grow number of "Farrel" cattle, the aren't economically viable, ( possibly because of the Bureaucacy).

 

As well as the Pigs,Goats, & Roo's. They (ferrels) are destroying the meager grazing land, just like the camels did or do out back, and horses on the alpine slopes.

 

spacesailor

Yep, that's been the case since about the 1860s. Good hunting when you can find them.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... It's possible to do this on horses or ground vehicles without stressing the animal.

Crickey me and my brothers have been doing it wrong all these years...

 

Perhaps it all depends on what you call stress.

 

 

[turboplanner]

We're into cattle mustering by correspondence now?

 

 

[M61A1]

We're into cattle mustering by correspondence now?

Yeah , out here we send them (the cattle) a written notice 28 days in advance to comply all the govt directives and present for slaughter on the proper date. Hasn't been as effective as we might like, but we'll have to wait until they've responded to the "Final Notice", before we can send them "notice of Enforcement".

 

 

[M61A1]

A most unwise statement on someones' part. In GA, yes, you do need both a LL rating plus a mustering endo, (on that rating), in order to muster even your own stock. Many don't bother with all this of course. With RAAus, it's called stock spotting, and is covered in the RAAus 'utility' endorsement. The older, wiser GA mustering pilots do not fly at 15ft and pull 3G in every turn - rather, they use power judiciously, keep 150 ft under them, keep the ball centered, and if stock prove recalcitrant, they call in the motorbikes.

 

happy days,

I think that the poster may have been referring to the "Contract" part. RAA aircraft may be used for private operations, which includes working and carrying out inspections on your own property, but does not include using them for hire or reward, which would mean "contract" mustering (or other people's stock) wouldn't be permitted.

 

Quoted from CAO99.55

 

6 General conditions

 

6.1 The following general conditions apply in relation to a relevant aeroplane:

 

(a) a person must not use the aeroplane other than for:

 

(i) private operations, including glider towing, but not an aerial application operation; or

 

(ii) if the aeroplane has been wholly built and assembled by a commercial manufacturer — flying training, to enable the person to obtain a RAA pilot certificate; or

 

(iii) if the person has wholly built or assembled the aeroplane, whether individually or with other persons — the person’s personal flying training;