How did 24-1524 get RAA registration?

[fly_tornado]

the empty weight on a Grunman is 460Kgs

 

Specifications (AA-1A)

 

Data from The American Trainer Owner's Manual[8]

 

General characteristics

 

• Crew: one pilot
   
  
• Capacity: one passenger
   
  
• Length: 19.24 ft (5.87 m)
   
  
• Wingspan: 24.46 ft (7.46 m)
   
  
• Height: 6.80 ft (2.07 m)
   
  
• Wing area: 98 ft² (9.11 m²)
   
  
• Empty weight: 1,018 lb (461 kg)
   
  
• Max. takeoff weight: 1,500 lb (680 kg)
   
  
• Powerplant: 1 × Lycoming O-235-C2C flat-four engine, 108 hp (80.6 kW)
   
  

 

 

 

 

[kasper]

I suppose - being generous - it’s had one seatbelt removed and a placard added single occupant only and 600kg mtow with corresponding changes to the ops handbook on all load charts etc

 

That would satisfy the requirements ... if I squint in a dark room whilst crossing my fingers.

 

If not then .... hmmmmm

 

 

[pmccarthy]

139 kg allowed for me plus fuel for a O-235 would not get off the ground!

 

 

[Thruster88]

Could be operated by two hot women with fuel for 90mins plus reserve.

 

 

[KRviator]

The empty weight on my 2-seat RAAus-registered RV-9A is 445Kg, so 155kg payload. That's me + not-quite-full thanks or me + mini-me + fuel for a 3 hr junket.

 

Until I swap it to VH, that meets my mission requirements.

 

 

[M61A1]

You should be more concerned with getting your Tornados registered.

 

 

[Downunder]

As long as the Grumman is flown within RAA requirements I don't really care.

 

Single seat, 460 + 80kg pilot is 540kg. Leaves 60 kg fuel (80 odd litres) for an all up 600kg. Not bad...

 

When you look at some of the older registered european 450/520/540 kg ultralight aircraft, it's not that much different and plenty of them are 2 seaters.

 

Many pilots are "ctaf pilots", and just enjoy a solo morning or afternoon local flight. I don't hold that against them...

 

 

[Litespeed]

I like the idea, now we just need a fair weight limit like 700 kg to allow other such craft and it could be great.

 

A damn good aircraft often found at bargain prices. I like em a lot.

 

 

[Litespeed]

A side benefit even at this weight of 600 kg is the ability of the pilot to overload is severely limited compared to its tech weight limit.

 

A tough aircraft compared to our usual fare. Jabiru excluded as they are tough at any weight limit- I am thinking in a accident if your wondering.

 

 

[aro]

What's the stall speed? Isn't the maximum stall speed 45 kt for RAA?

 

 

[Downunder]

Hmmm...52kts. I wonder if the 600kg limit brings it down to 45?

 

 

[Roundsounds]

It’s all good, RAA MTOW 1500kg increase “imminent”

 

?

 

It’d be interesting to throw this on scales.

 

T-51

 

 

[Downunder]

It’s all good, RAA MTOW 1500kg increase “imminent”

Ha ha.... That's been on the "books" since about 2008.....

 

It’d be interesting to throw this on scales.

 

T-51

Not much of a problem one up, with the Rotax.

 

As a 2 seater and/or the various V6's then VH Exp definately....

 

 

[aro]

Hmmm...52kts. I wonder if the 600kg limit brings it down to 45?

600 kg should bring it down to 49 by my calculation. 45 would require 510kg.

 

 

[djpacro]

My copy of the POH has Vs of 62 mph CAS at aft cg, 64 at fwd cg.

 

 

[kasper]

My copy of the POH has Vs of 62 mph CAS at aft cg, 64 at fwd cg.

I did say as a single seater you’d still need to Criss your fingers ... that your claimed stall met the refs for RAAus might be one reason to have them crossed ...

 

 

[Thruster88]

So this aircraft can currently be owner maintained, but when (if) RAA get higher MTOW it will be back to Lame maintenance? Or could the owner choose to keep it at 600kg ?

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Well that’s the big question.

 

If the increased limits allow certified aircraft like Cessna 150s and similar to be included and in the rest of the aviation world those same aircraft have to be maintained professionally you can see that CASA will be very reluctant to have them maintained by unqualified people especially where there might be the potential for them to end up back on the GA register in the future.

 

Same applies to the drive for CTA - you can bet they will need to be maintained same for that too.

 

 

[M61A1]

So this aircraft can currently be owner maintained, but when (if) RAA get higher MTOW it will be back to Lame maintenance? Or could the owner choose to keep it at 600kg ?

It is my understanding that outcome RAA is trying to get is similar to the current maintenance arrangement. That is, it requires professional maintenance if used for hire or reward (perhaps CTA), and owner maintained if used for private ops. They did acknowledge that CASA may not come to that party. If they can't get this arrangement, there's not much advantage in getting the weight increase.

 

 

[aro]

My copy of the POH has Vs of 62 mph CAS at aft cg, 64 at fwd cg.

So what weight limit do you need to bring the stall speed down to 45kt so it is RAA eligible?

 

 

[djpacro]

I don't know the rules about that. Normally performance stall speeds are stated for fwd cg, it is rare for a manual to quote aft cg as well for a small airplane. Do the rules allow calculation or do they require specific test in which case a calibrated ASI is required etc etc?

 

 

[facthunter]

I doubt they would permit the forward limit Cof G situation being altered as a stipulated condition but the weight difference is easy to calculate without flight testing... Nev

 

 

[408059]

Slightly off topic.

 

I had a Cassutt Racer that I wanted to put on the RAA Register. Steve Bell, from RAA, was happy to consider the proposition until I mentioned the 58 knot stall speed. I researched and found someone over in the USA that had brought the stall speed down to 45 knots by putting wing tip extensions on and reducing weight. While the CofG was fine he found the aircraft uncontrollable at speeds just above the stall speed. The Cassutt Racer has small tail feathers and at that speed the elevator and rudder simply did not work well. Even if you can get the weight down on 24-1524, and the CofG sorted so you have a 45 knot stall speed, there still may be problems.

 

 

[M61A1]

I don't know the rules about that. Normally performance stall speeds are stated for fwd cg, it is rare for a manual to quote aft cg as well for a small airplane. Do the rules allow calculation or do they require specific test in which case a calibrated ASI is required etc etc?

From memory CAO 95.55 requires the aircraft to stall at 45kts CAS or less in the landing configuration at MTOW

 

 

[M61A1]

From CAO 95.55

 

stall speed Vso is the stalling speed, or minimum steady flight speed, at which an aeroplane is controllable with:

 

(a) wing flaps in the landing position; and

 

(b) landing gear extended; and

 

© engine idling with the throttle closed; and

 

(d) centre of gravity in the most forward position; and

 

(e) maximum take-off weight.