Adelaide Newbie Looking for Guidance

[phattattak]

Hey All,

 

I've been trolling these forums and pprune for a while and trying to gleam as much information as I can but about earning an RPC and PPL. I've always contemplated taking to the sky for probably the last 15 years, but cost was always a prohibitive factor especially for a PPL ($>25k) and couldn't justify the investment. Given that I've left my interest at FSX and mirroring the flights I do for work.....so sad.

 

So....some years ago I ran into an old CPL acquaintance and probed him about a PPL and he suggested RAAus. At the time it didn't sound like it married up to my expectations (e.g. being able to fly in controlled airspace or aerodromes). I looked at gliding at one stage as a legup to GA, but as interesting as it is the ambition always was powered flight. So with changes in personal circumstances and slight opening up of legislation, RAAus path is starting to make a lot more sense. I see it as a way to do things with the family as well as achieve a personal ambition. My plan is to start with an RPC, PAX, XC etc, then convert to RPL. From there work towards controlled airspace and aerodrome endorsements, with the end goal of being able to take the 4 of us to short jumps across the state or Australia. In between the dabble in GA (or even if I don't progress that far), RAAus sounds like the ideal place to keep skills, knowledge and smiles up without the cost...which of course leads to one of the biggest drivers, the budget needs to be maintained.

 

So a few questions.

 

1. Are my ambitions and plans reasonable?

 

2. Should I park any attempts to start until the other side of winter given the unfavourable VFR weather?

 

3. Gawler is my closest flight school by far so always will be a home base. And from my research volunteers keep hrly costs down which helps the budget. From reading here it sounds like it's pretty busy with training? How hard is it to book training slots?

 

4. I can probably spare a half day on the weekend every week to two weeks. What are the typical hours to reach RPC then get through endorsements? Some people look to nail it close to the minimums, but looks like others took 3x the hours?

 

5. Is there much difference in flights schools, or some that could be considered better than others? If/when I get to an RPC level, I'd probably look at few hrs at another school to broaden horizons and get different perspectives.

 

6. Has anyone converted to RPL in Adelaide, and if so who did they go through on the GA side?

 

7. What are the typical hrs to convert to RPL, and on top earn the endorsements? I've read the thread here about being milked and if that's the standard it's well beyond budget.

 

8. Can the RAAus radio endorsement be migrated to a FROL? Or does it just substitute the need for a FROL? Or do I need to do it all over again (in which case I'd consider earning a FROL first and bringing that to the RPC).

 

8. Are there free publications available (e.g. BAK type publications) that are good reads to prepare?

 

Looking forward to being shot down and my dreams somewhat grounded :) But also looking forward to maybe dipping a toe in and booking in a TIF if I can realistically achieve what I set out to do.

 

 

[facthunter]

I would consider an organization that does both RAAus and the GA path. You don't need to get involved with the" Rivalry "that way. Not essential of course. mostly all GA earned qualifications transfer to RAAus but not the other way. Keep your theory AND TESTS ahead of the actual FLIGHT PROGRESS but the flight part works closely with the training reference(s) used. There will be a big variance of standard and approach out there. You are the one paying and don't have to put up with being short changed re briefings or abused etc Done in the air, they are pretty much a waste of your money. Don't complicate it, but make sure your AB INITIO training has a solid base of understanding not just numbers and rules, as you will never again be an ab initio student. The foundation (like a House) stays with you. Nev

 

 

[cherk]

I would suggest talking to the bods at Gawler , ( ASC , AdelaideSoaringClub). CFI for LSA was Karl Faith , I was a member till some time ago . The great advantage of the club membership is that your training is wet hire of club aircraft . Instruction is included with club membership . A good crowd of top class volunteers.

 

 

[tafisama]

I did exactly what you are planning to do.Did my RPC with all endorsements at Gawler in the J170C and D.Moved to the J230C.Later because of wanting CTA and heavier machines ,went to Parafield in a C172.That was expensive.I already had RPL from CASA all I needed was a Flight Review.The C172 was very different to handle, and I spent a lot of hours trying to master it, at the same time doing Navigation.I finally passed my PPL tests BUT THAT WAS VERY EXPENSIVE.So the cost for RPC and endorsements was under $5 000 but for PPL alone it came to $20 000 because I would run out of money and spend over 8 weeks without flying and when I came back,it will be like starting afresh.Navigation was my biggest killer at times flights would be 3.2 hours @$360/hr plus landing fees.

 

I dont regret though.

 

 

[poteroo]

All good advice above. Because RAAus flying and endorsements are 'recognised' by CASA for conversion to the RPL, it's wise to do your cross-country endorsement in RAAus - before shifting to the GA side. It's not smart to short-cut your navigation training and do just the bare minimums, (12hrs), as required in RAAus. I suggest you should have done at least 2, better 3-4 solo navex under RAAus and have around 20+ hrs total navigation before RPL. It also helps if your RAAus training is 'heavy' on attitude flying, and that you can actually fly with reference to instruments only, (limited or full panel), before RPL.

 

happy days,

 

 

[ClintonB]

I followed the same path for similar reasons, only now I sit in a 182 on my own or 1 passenger if anyone is not to busy to come with me, which chews through a bit of Avgas per hour.

 

I had about 80 hours Raaus when i started and took around 26 hours to convert over with the differences in handling, extra things to do like prop and mixture, controlled aerodromes etc.

 

The figures of 5hrs to convert that are sometimes shown must be for geniuses.

 

The bonus now being I can now jump in on a good day and be on the coast in an hour without worry if the tower is open-I actually find I like them there because having someone guide you helps with workload a bit when approaching somewhere new or busy.

 

 

[tafisama]

All good advice above. Because RAAus flying and endorsements are 'recognised' by CASA for conversion to the RPL, it's wise to do your cross-country endorsement in RAAus - before shifting to the GA side. It's not smart to short-cut your navigation training and do just the bare minimums, (12hrs), as required in RAAus. I suggest you should have done at least 2, better 3-4 solo navex under RAAus and have around 20+ hrs total navigation before RPL. It also helps if your RAAus training is 'heavy' on attitude flying, and that you can actually fly with reference to instruments only, (limited or full panel), before RPL.

 

happy days,

You are very right,I made a big error but then my school seemed not to fully understand how to have Navigation added onto RPL.Casa could not add Navigation because I had no Instrument time.It is because of these endorsements that I found going for PPL would be wise as they are embedded in it.

 

 

[phattattak]

Thanks for the responses. The weather in Adelaide at the moment isn't conducive to flying at the moment, so it might be the time to start some conversations, map out a plan and do some reading.

 

The big thing for me is the opportunity cost, there is a a dual school I think in Murray Bridge (or at least RAAus and GA schools that may play nice), but a 3hr+ round trip is hard to stomach. Gawler for me is half that, so will be a lot easier to keep continuous lessons and learning going. I'll head out there in a few weeks and have a chat to the guys.

 

Definitely will complete the navs in RAAus space. That's where the benefits of the cost really shine, $1k for a GA nav, $400 or so for RAAus. For me that's one of the main points of flying is seeing the country rather than circuits (as much as mastering skills is great). Getting the paper is one thing, but would want to be largely fluent before tackling GA, just so things are more second nature given the greater workload in GA aircraft.

 

From the hours it sounds like most went from RPC to PPL. And in general it sounds like most GA flight schools have no or at best various ideas about how to convert from RPC to RPL. From CASA it should be a matter of submitting the forms and getting the RPL with corresponding endorsements. Even though the RPL requires 2 hrs instrument time, as far as the carrying over of endorsements go, this shouldn't have to be done. All that should be needed is a flight review against the competencies, but it seems in most cases that becomes a long winded learning plan. Granted gaps need to be filled for the competencies to be ticked, but in the most part it seems like a lot of GA schools don't know what is expected of them.

 

Having said that I've found a GA school at Parafield that at least from their website is more in tune with getting people flying rather than getting people careers in flying, I'd never heard of Parafield Flying Centre before, and at $210 dual for a GA aircraft (C150) it helps the budget. And most of all it looks like they have a good plan of how to progress RPC pilots into the GA world.

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

I got my PPL some thirty years ago. After the initial novelty wore off I found myself flying 99% of the time alone or with one passenger. In Tobago TB10. For the last ten years I have been flying out of Gawler. I have my own plane and hangar there. It's a great place because it's a club, not a business. We have 'meal and movie' nights and other club activities and the socializing is (to me) the most important part. Flying RAAus these days I do not miss controlled airspace at all. As for waiting until after the cold weather, I prefer winter flying because small recreational aircraft can be pretty awful to fly in hot lumpy weather.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Replying to Jabiru7252

 

 

 

"small recreational aircraft can be pretty awful to fly in hot lumpy weather. "

 

Indeed they can Sir. . . Not only Recreational aircraft either. . . Turbulence doesn't give damn WHAT appliance you are flying. . .

 

Last year, in the Extremely HOTTT UK Summer of 2018,. . I was asked to 'P2' a mate of mine when he ferried a Beechcraft Kingair from the UK to Eire ( Republic of Ireland ) to a place called knock. (Good name ) We took off from Luton Airport, near South East London ('ish ) at 9 AM, and climbed through controlled airspace under radar guidance finally coasting out from the UK over Liverpool, and the air was reasonably calm. . .as it was over the Irish sea as one would expect, BUT. . .as soon as we coasted in over the Irish mainland, all hell broke loose. . .we were in a Tumble Drier, and being chucked about all over the sky at 4,500 feet, and the lower we went, the worse it became. My Bose headset was damaged after several impacts with the cockpit side window framing. and I seriously thought that we were going to suffer airframe damage . . . THAT was only one of the few (fifty seven ) times in my life that I thought that I was going to die in an aeroplane. . . .

 

My mate Captain Clive, was sweating like an adultress in Kabul and the aircraft became almost inverted a couple of times in the worst turbs I had ever experienced.

 

We finally made it to Knock. . (.Clive wouldn't let me land it though the bugger,. . just because My licence wasn't current. . [ Twot ] ) and the ride home on the train and Ferry was far more relaxing, although everyone was barfing up on the Irish Sea and to Bogs were awash with puke. . .. We said to complaining passengers "YOU THINK THIS IS ROUGH . . ? ? ? ?" as we BOTH ate a full english with greasy bacon and drank pints of Guinness. . . .Bunch of Pussies. . .