How much should I rent out my Foxbat for?

[APenNameAndThatA]

Hi

 

I am wondering how much I should charge my flying school to do TIF's and dual instruction on my Foxbat. I suppose I am wondering what hourly variable cost is, minus fuel; and what margin to put on that. It would be nice to keep it flying and have it pay for itself a bit. Thanks!

 

 

[facthunter]

It doesn't usually work out well. You get less than you will need to spend . You lose control over the quality of your plane (The main reason for buying one ) It ends up not being worth much, often only used when the Clubs other planes are engaged elsewhere.. Insurance cost??? It's complex. Have you considered selling part ownership of it to someone else you have picked yourself?

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Assuming the club pays for fuel and oil, the main cost is depreciation. Each hour flown takes value off the engine, prop and airframe. As a first guess allow $30 per hour for the airframe, $13 per hour for the engine. After adding finance, insurance, maintenance and RAA rego, the cost per hour to you ranges from $212 per hour if it does 50 hours per year down to $70 if it does 500 hours per year. I was considering buying a Foxbat and doing the same, hence worked it out in some detail. If you accept less than these hourly rates, then each hour the club flies is costing you money. I found that my club was not interested.

 

 

[Downunder]

Add in what "repairs" do to the resale value, even if insurance covers it.

 

And the lack of use by you or anyone while waiting for assessment, parts, repairs, etc....

 

I don't see any advantage to clubs for "vanilla" training aircraft in a cross-hire situation rather than owning their own.

 

Unless it is specialized. ie a tail wheel.

 

 

[old man emu]

Better to identify the better pilots on your airfield and offer the plane to them at the rate that covers variable costs and tad more. The problem with trying to calculate an accurate hourly rate is that there are so many variables.

 

Consider what your annual costs would be if the plane sat on the ground all year. You bought the plane because you wanted to own a plane. Therefore, accept those costs yourself.

 

Next work out fixed maintenance costs - engine TBO, airframe PMMc says a total of $43 per hour. Make that $50. Next add fuel cost per hour. 15 litres per hour for a Rotax 912. (2 $1.50/litre = $22.50) Plus a liter of oil ($15) . Adds up to $87.50.

 

Compare that to what the flying school charges per hour, wet, and pitch your price between the two.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

OME I thought about variable costs plus a tad. But whether it is friends or cross hire, every hour flown costs you depreciation on airframe, engine and prop.

 

 

[Blueadventures]

Agree PMc. Depreciation is real at the end of use price; so should be considered at start. Therefore may be a better plan to buy a second hand good condition aircraft and make your saving today (at commencement). There is really nothing better than knowing the flight history of an aircraft that you have been flying with no other pilots in between. Best business plane hire deals I have heard of includes a great cheap purchase price of a good aircraft that goes on line (lowest possible outlay, usual maintenance costs etc and best return rate. Usually not achieved to that extent with a new aircraft purchase at market value.) Cheers.

 

 

[old man emu]

I think the only answer to this problem is that it is not possible to break even when owning a plane. In private ownership they are an indulgence. The same as cars, boats and golf clubs.

 

But have you ever asked the owner of a big fibreglass boat if they consider the economics of owning one? I see a lot of these massive craft sitting on trailers in peoples' yards and wonder how often they get into the water.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Agreed OME. But the cost to the owner varies with use. A new LSA for example at $120k might sell for $90k five years later with 250 hours on it, typical 50 h/year useage. If a club+owner has put 1000 hours on it then it might be $70k or less. The owner has had the same ownership pleasure but takes the hit.

 

 

[facthunter]

You have a chance to keep your new plane in an environment you control. Training is harder on planes and occasionally things happen you wouldn't do to it yourself. None of these planes are built strong enough to treat like trucks. Even hangar rash is dangerous and who's moving it in and out?. It also sits in the sun and rain. Ends up being just another USED plane Why did you buy a new one? Second hand ones are much cheaper. Answer you don't really know what you are getting with a used one and upon it's integrity your life depends. These planes don't really have a high airframe life before cracks etc. start. Nev

 

 

[old man emu]

It all comes back to that old Q & A:

 

Q: How do you make a million in aviation?

 

A: Start with two.

 

 

[facthunter]

To stick to our original aim . Safe and affordable is a challenge. Expensive is not necessarily safe either..Nev

 

 

[Roscoe]

Hi

 

I am wondering how much I should charge my flying school to do TIF's and dual instruction on my Foxbat. I suppose I am wondering what hourly variable cost is, minus fuel; and what margin to put on that. It would be nice to keep it flying and have it pay for itself a bit. Thanks!

Dont do it!

 

I had a C152 online at a busy school

 

many years ago, and the maintenance costs well outstripped the revenue.

 

Enjoy it yourself you will be much happier.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

There are also the costs associated with "For hire and reward". There are big savings and much satisfaction in doing your own maintenance.