L1 Maintenance Training

[Jabiru7252]

So, I try to enroll in the L1 maintenance training at Gawler but nope, RAAus won't allow payment except with a credit card, which I do not have. This is not acceptable and should change. While I have the floor, is true that without the L1 training one cannot even change the oil in their plane?

 

 

[skippydiesel]

First: There is a world of difference between cant & should not for legal reasons.

 

Second: The L1 exam was offered "on line" is this no longer the case??

 

 

[jackc]

I did the L1 practical training at Dubbo about 3 weeks ago, logged in 10 days before and paid by card. Eventbrite seem to be the organisation that organises it, with the host location. You get a certificate and then need to do the on line test to get the L1.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I suspect the old law still applies, that you cannot refuse legal tender.

 

 

[Downunder]

It's very difficult to get by without a "card" of some sort these days. From hiring cars to motel rooms, they all want a card.

 

I use a "Qantas travel money" card. You use it EXACTLY like a credit card. It is mastercard based.

 

You need to have money in the account to use it (there is no actual credit) and it generally takes less than 24 hrs to transfer into it from your bank account.

 

Advantages are zero fees and qantas points. (I just cashed in some points for a caltex starcard. Enough for a tank of fuel)

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

My card is a 'debit card'. In the technical manual, section 11.1 paragraph 3.2.1 does that refer to the online training I did a few years ago or what? I have been doing oil, oil filter, plugs, etc. for the last ten years on my plane. Now somebody says I need to do the practical training to be able to touch my plane. I'm too old and grumpy to have people confusing me.

 

 

[jackc]

The online L1 course covers you now for your own servicing, however the new L1 practical assessment course will become mandatory in addition to the existing online course. A date has not been announced for the new L1 regime of testing.

 

Contact Darren Barnfield 0408 351 309 at RAAus for the good oil.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

 

 

[Alan]

The online L1 course covers you now for your own servicing, however the new L1 practical assessment course will become mandatory in addition to the existing online course. A date has not been announced for the new L1 regime of testing.

 

Contact Darren Barnfield 0408 351 309 at RAAus for the good oil.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

Interesting. I can find no mention of a mandatory L1 practical course on the RAA website.

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

 

[jackc]

Alan,

 

We were told at the Dubbo practical L1 course that it will become mandatory, contact Darren Barnfield, for details.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Making the practical course mandatory, is a blatant scam by RAA - the skills required are basic, if you dont already have them - helping out with your local LAME/ L2 will soon provide. Doing an on line theory test is all that is required.

 

 

[jackc]

Well maybe there is pressure from the CASA gatekeeper? I personally think it’s a good idea, there are many students doing preflight inspections, knowing only the very basics. More knowledge has to be a bonus all around? Whilst I have worked on motorcycles, cars etc etc for over 50 years, I have been in this Aviation gig for all of 10 minutes:-). I will be doing engine courses etc, everything I can get my hands on to further my knowledge. One day, it just may save my backside.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

The online L1 course covers you now for your own servicing, however the new L1 practical assessment course will become mandatory in addition to the existing online course. A date has not been announced for the new L1 regime of testing.

 

Contact Darren Barnfield 0408 351 309 at RAAus for the good oil.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

I thought Dazza had gone to greener pastures at CASA?

 

 

[jackc]

Did a runner to RAA, in with Jared Smith doing tech stuff.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

 

 

[Downunder]

I thought Dazza had gone to greener pastures at CASA?

Did a runner to casa. Lasted 10 minutes. Came back to RAA on "contract".

 

Works from home on "consultancy" rates I believe...... ( I see membership & rego rates up again..... wonder why?)....

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Well maybe there is pressure from the CASA gatekeeper? I personally think it’s a good idea, there are many students doing preflight inspections, knowing only the very basics. More knowledge has to be a bonus all around? Whilst I have worked on motorcycles, cars etc etc for over 50 years, I have been in this Aviation gig for all of 10 minutes:-). I will be doing engine courses etc, everything I can get my hands on to further my knowledge. One day, it just may save my backside.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

Hi Jackc - All student pilots are taught (I hope) to do a thorough pref flight inspection before committing aviation. The L1 or for that matter any maintenance program is unlikely to improve on this - unless you start dismantling the aircraft.

 

If I may draw an the automotive world for an example - overwhelmingly most drivers know/care little for the mechanical condition of their vehicle - this is left to the service personal. As with pilots, drivers do not need to know the intricacies of the machine, to operate the vehicle safely.

 

As an long term and obsessive "bush mechanic" I have simpatico for your argument - it just doesnt play out in real life.

 

If you intend to play the part of maintenance crew (& pilot) then the training/experience you have from working on land bound equipment is, if applied with some common sense and the use of a type specific maintenance bible ( manual) is all you will need to maintain an RAA aircraft.

 

The L1 is unlikely to do any more than give you the formal right to apply what you already know.

 

 

[Blueadventures]

Any training weather online or practical should enhance or at least reinforce a persons ability; in this topics instance maintenance of RAA aircraft.

 

 

[jackc]

Hi Jackc - All student pilots are taught (I hope) to do a thorough pref flight inspection before committing aviation. The L1 or for that matter any maintenance program is unlikely to improve on this - unless you start dismantling the aircraft.

 

If I may draw an the automotive world for an example - overwhelmingly most drivers know/care little for the mechanical condition of their vehicle - this is left to the service personal. As with pilots, drivers do not need to know the intricacies of the machine, to operate the vehicle safely.

 

As an long term and obsessive "bush mechanic" I have simpatico for your argument - it just doesnt play out in real life.

 

If you intend to play the part of maintenance crew (& pilot) then the training/experience you have from working on land bound equipment is, if applied with some common sense and the use of a type specific maintenance bible ( manual) is all you will need to maintain an RAA aircraft.

 

The L1 is unlikely to do any more than give you the formal right to apply what you already know.

I have seen other students do preflights and it was obvious to me that they had very little idea of what they were looking at engine wise. Very little mechanical knowledge etc. I will be going to a Rotax maintenance course soon, to learn all I can about that motor, whilst I am not allowed to do extensive work on them, I will gain intimate knowledge that may help make diagnosing a problem easier and safely and become aware of any shortcomings of the engine itself, if any.

 

I am responsible for a proper preflight and any knowledge that helps me do that job properly is very important.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

 

 

[Yenn]

From what I have seen the L1 courses will be focussed on paperwarfare. It is all about knowing how to keep the paperwork up to date and correct.

 

You could be the worlds best mechanic and still have not a chance in hell of passing the exam without study. You could also pass the exam and have hardly any knowledge of the difference between a carburettor and a carbuncle.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

I have seen other students do preflights and it was obvious to me that they had very little idea of what they were looking at engine wise. Very little mechanical knowledge etc. I will be going to a Rotax maintenance course soon, to learn all I can about that motor, whilst I am not allowed to do extensive work on them, I will gain intimate knowledge that may help make diagnosing a problem easier and safely and become aware of any shortcomings of the engine itself, if any.

 

I am responsible for a proper preflight and any knowledge that helps me do that job properly is very important.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack.

 

Go for it - All learning is good.

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

From RAAus Technical Team....

 

"It is not mandatory to complete the L1 practical training component as long as you have completed the online L1 component."

 

Having said that, I would still like to do the practical.

 

 

[turboplanner]

How can you maintain something if you haven’t been trained how to measure and use sophisticated tools, work with aluminium, and manage critical systems.

 

 

[kasper]

How can you maintain something if you haven’t been trained how to measure and use sophisticated tools, work with aluminium, and manage critical systems.

So no motorist should be allowed to touch their cars? All mechanics must prove full training in using any tool they might use to work on your car?

 

Consider the risk difference ... a ton of steel and fury 1m from another ton of steel and fury at a speed difference greater than many light aircraft ... and all with innocent non participating public standing and walking around without so much as a guard rail.

 

Would you advocate for something similar and cars nowhere near people ?

 

 

[turboplanner]

So no motorist should be allowed to touch their cars? All mechanics must prove full training in using any tool they might use to work on your car?

 

Consider the risk difference ... a ton of steel and fury 1m from another ton of steel and fury at a speed difference greater than many light aircraft ... and all with innocent non participating public standing and walking around without so much as a guard rail.

 

Would you advocate for something similar and cars nowhere near people ?

In general terms, if you've been working on a non-safety item (90% of the car) and you accidentally half shear a bolt, cross thread, stretch something, use the wrong torque, use a sub standard hose etc, a car rolls to a stop and leaves you stranded whereas an aircraft either folds a wing etc. or presents you with a forced landing.

 

Unskilled people working on car safety items like suspension, steering, much of the braking system can present the same risk as a similar mistake on an aircraft.

 

Auto mechanics work on an apprentice system being trained how to perform functions, are supervised by a Service Manager and receive written certifications as they progress through to full qualifications.

 

Sure there are unqualified people working on cars, but the key point here is that NONE of them have been given official backing by a qualification such as L1.

 

L1 certification meansx that someone else has taken responsibility for their skills.

 

 

[Yenn]

So if you pass the L1 and stuff up, causing an accident, or not really an accident, but someone gets hurt, then you are not responsible.

 

 

[turboplanner]

So if you pass the L1 and stuff up, causing an accident, or not really an accident, but someone gets hurt, then you are not responsible.

Yes you still are; ALL the people involved are responsible, so the L1 missing links should be addressed.