L1 Maintenance Training

[skippydiesel]

We’re not morphing into a cotton wool society, just a few cowboys who don’t know their legal obligations.

 

Its called living in fear (of legal retribution) ergo cotton wool society

 

 

[turboplanner]

Its called living in fear (of legal retribution) ergo cotton wool society

The irony is that today, if you are doing the right thing, less accidents occur and you are covered by insurance.

 

A lot of high risk industries which were closed down in the 1980s are back in business again, for example waterside parks and the fund raising BBQ.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

The irony is that today, if you are doing the right thing, less accidents occur and you are covered by insurance.

 

A lot of high risk industries which were closed down in the 1980s are back in business again, for example waterside parks and the fund raising BBQ.

A lot of kid play grounds have never reopened - fewer and fewer young people are hiking, flying, diving,boating, horse riding, etc etc etc - as in all things, there are benefits & losses. On balance it would seem to me we (in the west) have become increasingly risk avers - a bad think for our species ie a net loss.

 

I think the concept of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" may just about sum my feelings up.

 

 

[M61A1]

A lot of high risk industries which were closed down in the 1980s

the fund raising BBQ

If the sort of people that feel a fund raising BBQ is "high risk" are making rules for the rest of us then we have a problem.

 

The other problem here is who decides what "doing the right thing " is? As long as your activity has no negative impact on anyone innocent party, I would say you are doing the right thing, but other people have decided for me using 5 x 5 matrices. As I've said before, the training, quality, and safety industries are just parasites sucking the life out of every host organisation they can find. We did fine without them before and would still do fine without them now.

 

And you're right we're not morphing into a "cotton wool society", we've already been there for well over a decade. Fat lot of good it's done us. Turned a lot of people into precious, fragile little beings with no sense of humour. No wonder suicide rates are high.

 

 

[turboplanner]

A lot of kid play grounds have never reopened - fewer and fewer young people are hiking, flying, diving,boating, horse riding, etc etc etc - as in all things, there are benefits & losses. On balance it would seem to me we (in the west) have become increasingly risk avers - a bad think for our species ie a net loss.

 

I think the concept of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" may just about sum my feelings up.

Just about every McDonalds in Australia has a playground, so that added to the numbers.

 

Councils got rid of the log swings, which could fracture a toddler's skull, laid rubberised base throughout the playground, replaced rigid arm swings with light chain, and wooden seats with frangible plastic. Our local council now dots these around what they call Pocket Parks, so about ten of these where there used to be about three.

 

I haven't seen any drop in hiking, but flying, diving, boating, horse riding are mostly restricted by finance choice; A cousin of mine is currently sharing photos of himself and wife lounging around Sheraton Mirage Port Douglas gold course up close to a croc. They are just making different choices.

 

 

[M61A1]

laid rubberised base throughout the playground, replaced rigid arm swings with light chain, and wooden seats with frangible plastic.

You just tried to tell us we weren't a "cotton wool society".

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Just about every McDonalds in Australia has a playground, so that added to the numbers.

 

Councils got rid of the log swings, which could fracture a toddler's skull, laid rubberised base throughout the playground, replaced rigid arm swings with light chain, and wooden seats with frangible plastic. Our local council now dots these around what they call Pocket Parks, so about ten of these where there used to be about three.

 

I haven't seen any drop in hiking, but flying, diving, boating, horse riding are mostly restricted by finance choice; A cousin of mine is currently sharing photos of himself and wife lounging around Sheraton Mirage Port Douglas gold course up close to a croc. They are just making different choices.

Best not comment on McDonalds - as for the outdoor activates mentioned;

 

My generation did not let cost dictate our pastimes/hobbies, we just scrimp & saved to get where we could, which may have meant never getting past entry level but at least we got there. Risk was rarely mentioned even when being trained to avoid it. Now the perception of risk prevents many before they even get a taste. For those that persist the cost of insurance can be crippling.

 

No matter where you go now, evidence of insurance is likely to be demanded - On behalf of NSW State Gov. I used to manage a large outdoor venue (developed using tax payers $$) my department eventually hiked the requirement for users public liability so high, two clubs never came back after 10 years patronage (both eventually folded because they could not find a cost effective venue), many others just did not pursue their booking enquiry - eventually the venue closed through lack of patronage.

 

 

[facthunter]

I've often thought the answer would be to live in a 3rd world country with non violent people. We DO have far too many stupid hoops to jump through devised by desk jockeys who don't actually do any of the stuff they wish to control. For a LONG time aviation has been you fly only when the paperwork equals the weight of the Plane, But I know it's getting worse as I've been around a while and actively involved and the change is there People running things are not "hands on" and practically experienced so the outcome is as it is.. There is no real LOVE in the upper echelons for aeroplanes you can build in your loungeroom and it was a great struggle from the beginning. The biggest time of noteworthy prangs seemed to be with the many autogyros structural failures. A steep learning curve. and the first legal 2 seaters (Thruster), came out in about 86. Up till then there's no dual in the actual aircraft... Over regulation is a natural tendency and will occur if there's not a review now and then and a genuine desire to be practical. Generally the Yanks do it much better than we do. They have the benefit of a larger more active group to please, and like us have a big country where air travel was needed. and enough capital to do it. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

You just tried to tell us we weren't a "cotton wool society".

The best safety action is risk removal, where you remove the reliance on a human to comply, such as a roll cage in a race car. Removing the chance of concussion or breaking a limb is in the same category. That's not the same as a sociological action, such as not allowing children into playgrounds.

 

 

[frank marriott]

actively involved and the change is there People running things are not "hands on" and practically experienced so the outcome is as it is

Absolutely and add to that a lot of stupid decisions are being made/influenced by people with a vested interest (I.e. making money) out of the over regulation of activities requiring only the application of sense.

 

 

[turboplanner]

If the sort of people that feel a fund raising BBQ is "high risk" are making rules for the rest of us then we have a problem.

State Governments will still step in to safety issues on a political basis, and they stepped in on volunteer catering at a time when food poisoning requiring hospitalisation had reached four million Australians a year. At that time food poisoning in the USA was hospitalising 40 million Americans.

 

Some of the people hospitalised died. From memory that was in the early 1990s

 

However, Food Handling Courses sprang up all over the country and before long virtually all of them were back in business achieving the same health standards as shops.

 

The other problem here is who decides what "doing the right thing " is? As long as your activity has no negative impact on anyone innocent party, I would say you are doing the right thing,

If no one is being injured or likely to be injured you may well be right.

 

but other people have decided for me using 5 x 5 matrices. As I've said before, the training, quality, and safety industries are just parasites sucking the life out of every host organisation they can find. We did fine without them before and would still do fine without them now.

This is the confusion you always introduce; you apparently don't agree with the people you work for. There's nothing we can do about that, they are self regulating and entitled to manage their organisation.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Best not comment on McDonalds - as for the outdoor activates mentioned;

 

My generation did not let cost dictate our pastimes/hobbies, we just scrimp & saved to get where we could, which may have meant never getting past entry level but at least we got there. Risk was rarely mentioned even when being trained to avoid it. Now the perception of risk prevents many before they even get a taste. For those that persist the cost of insurance can be crippling.

 

No matter where you go now, evidence of insurance is likely to be demanded - On behalf of NSW State Gov. I used to manage a large outdoor venue (developed using tax payers $$) my department eventually hiked the requirement for users public liability so high, two clubs never came back after 10 years patronage (both eventually folded because they could not find a cost effective venue), many others just did not pursue their booking enquiry - eventually the venue closed through lack of patronage.

In Speedway, which could be a risky business at the time, we partnered with a large Insurance Broker, so they got inside information on and access to all our tracks and operations. We cleaned up a few things and finished up being ask to do the track inspections on US tracks. The costs became manageable and we continued on.

 

Waterslide parks around Australia closed down in the 1980s due to neck/spinal injuries which are the most expensive of all. They were soon opening again with employees at the top and bottom to ensure the departure area was clear before the next person started down (risk removal), then layout were changed so the top person could see all of the departure area and maybe today they do it electronically with no employees.

 

 

[spacesailor]

"The other problem here is who decides what "doing the right thing " is? "

 

We all know who.

 

Bureaucrats.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[M61A1]

The best safety action is risk removal, where you remove the reliance on a human to comply, such as a roll cage in a race car. Removing the chance of concussion or breaking a limb is in the same category. That's not the same as a sociological action, such as not allowing children into playgrounds.

I disagree, but I accept that we're never going to see eye to eye on most anything regulation related.

 

One of several...

 

[/url]http://theconversation.com/why-kids-need-risk-fear-and-excitement-in-play-81450

 

 

[jackc]

Reset course to VOR “L1 Maintenance” :-)

 

Cheers,

 

Jack

 

 

[M61A1]

I have no problem with proving your competence to maintain what you have, but forcing people to undertake mandatory training regardless of whether or not they can meet the competence standard would be a step too far.

 

How you prove that competence creates another problem. I consider the current L1 test inadequate for assessing much at all and consistent with other CASA maintenance exams which appear to be written by a full time instructor or writer that has never actually maintained anything in the real world. Meaning that while the exam content may be correct, it is almost never relevant to the actual maintenance of aircraft.

 

 

[slb]

The L1 online test is just an exercise in looking up information as far as I know. The practical courses seem to cover mostly line maintenance so far, which everyone is allowed to do whether you are a L1 or not. So I assume there will be more courses to cover more things later on?

 

 

[spacesailor]

All at a cost !.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[turboplanner]

"The other problem here is who decides what "doing the right thing " is? "

 

We all know who.

 

Bureaucrats.

 

spacesailor

In shooting it's volunteer shooters

 

In RA flying its the builders and pilots and HGFA/RAA

 

Same with any Self administered sport or business

 

Bureaucrats didn't work out even in the prescriptive era.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Bureaucrats do join voluntary organisations .

 

Then put in new rules, & end up running the joint "their way".

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

New Broom sweeping clean. Nev