Exceeding the crosswind limit

[motzartmerv]

Is it just me or what but in that pic it seems he (she) doesn't have any aeleron happnin?? Those heavy's have inboared aelerons don't they for low speed flight?? Doesn't seem to be reacting at all to the roll??...strange, but like others have said they were behind the acft alot...

 

 

 

cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

My final comment on this subject:

 

I think you are mistaking what people are saying Merv.

 

To ensure that it is perfectly clear what I am saying:

 

1. I am making no comment about whether this situation was at or above the a/c crosswind limits;
    
    
   
2. I am making no comment about whether they should have accepted that runway and commenced the approach;
    
    
   
3. I am saying that it was clear before they crossed the fence that they were not coping with the situation. The aircraft was not in a stabilised approach from what we can tell prior to crossing the fence;
    
    
   
4. I am saying that they should have gone around well before they crossed the fence because of 3 above and if not then certainly well before touchdown;
    
    
   
5. I am saying that I think it was almost certainly outside SOPs for them to have continued the approach;
    
    
   
6. I am saying that it was pure luck that prevented a catastrophe.
    
   

 

What I am also saying is that it's almost always OK to commence an approach. The true test of your judgement and skill is in deciding whether it is safe to continue or whether you should conduct a GA.

 

Put this another way: this aircraft for all I know was the 33rd aircraft to attempt to land on this runway in these conditions and it might have been followed by another 32 aircraft all other 64 of which may have conducted stabilised, uneventful approaches and landings.

 

Such a situation (if it had occurred) would have zero bearing on whether these 2 pilots acted appropriately or not.

 

If you have an un stabilised approach and then a stuffed up landing it is you and your passengers who are at risk of dying. Not the 32 aircraft loads before you and not the 32 after you.

 

Read the accident report for QF1 in Bangkok.

 

The "behaviour" in question is the decision to continue with an unstabilised approach. I strongly disagree with your assertion that that is widespread behaviour.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[motzartmerv]

And yet in 2 minutes of searching i found multiple examples of it..Check out the vid i posted.. which was one of about 15 i found on youtube alone in the first 2 pages

 

You say in point 1. I am making no comment on weather or not they were exeeding the max allowable crosswind limitation..And yet the title of the thread that u started was, This is what happens when you exceed the crosswind limitation..so it would appear that you are..

 

I stand by my statement that alot of these guys do this sort of thing...Ive seen it, ive watched it on video, ive been in rpt acft while they were doing it..ive listend to captains brag about how they have done it, repeatedly.., If it helps you sleep better then best not think to much about it..

 

In the very least look at all the flights on the board that were useing the same strip at the same time..I know you said that you weren't talking about the 30 before or the 30 flights after, but they all would have experianced similar conditions and had the same weather info..

 

 

[Ben Longden]

Mike,

 

I tried to PM you, but the box is full....

 

I just wanted to say how sorry i was for you to hear about the tragic loss of the young bloke.

 

Ben

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

Yes Merv I agree with the part there are lots of videos of these sorts of landings. There are lots of videos of people doing idiotic sh:censored: in cars, on motorbikes, in planes etc etc. There are also stacks of pics on these things when the 'lucky few' become the 'unlucky few'. Look at how many incidents of late with jetliners coming in too fast or in bad weather conditions. Garuda recently (say no more) made a decision to continue his approach when everything was wrong from the start. Look at what happened. How many people died? Too many. Yes, there are lots of videos and lots of stupid stupid pilots and probably one day, at the expense of many people on board, their stupidity will probably catch up with them. This thread should be called The Never Ending Story as it has the potential to go on for weeks ;)

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Darren, someone agreeing with me at least on one point is a nice change...haha..It has been said that a lot of people read these forums and may take away the wrong ideas about safety issues,..Well are we to just bury our heads in the sand and say this sort of thing is a rarity. And that all these guys get weeded out?? When that simply isn't true.. How would someone like this climb the ladder all the way through GA and then airlines and find themsev's in the right or left seat of an airbus without being weeded out b4 hand??Are we to assume this was he first and only time these pilots had attempted such a dodgy landing?? We would be very naive to think that was the case..

 

I shall rest my case now...

 

 

[nomis]

The approach does look a little unstable but do you know whether they had hit shear or were in mechanical turbulence caused by buildings/trees surrounding the airport. I flew an a340 into Franfurt the day this happened , TAF the same as motzartmerv posted,and the wind was still 100-120kts at 5000ft. There was a lot of Shear so the approach was quite challenging. None of our alternates for 600miles had anything any different. I dont know of anyone at the airline I work for that would knowingly break SOP's unless they had an emergency reason for doing so.The bus is capable of slips/skids and crossed control flying just as any aircraft is.

 

 

[Ben Longden]

Hi Nomis,

 

Its easy for us GA/RAA armchair critics to theorise ad nauseum about this incident, but is there any word from inside the industry about what went on?

 

Ben

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yea, was gunna say Nomis...what is your take on it?? the flying side of it??

 

cheers

 

 

[nomis]

Motzartmerv and Ben,

 

No different to some of the views here. Ranged from hang em high to they saved the day. There are as many oppinions as pilots in an airline, like any job. Unless I saw the QAR info on the aircraft and actual weather reports it is only a guess. An aircrew and aeroplane forced to their limits by weather. Probably combined with government policy on noise sensitive runways. No one thing but the Swiss Cheese effect of problems lining up till they Zap you. Sorry not much help.

 

 

[Ben Longden]

Actually a lot of help, Nomis.

 

One thing I know I have in common with airline pilots is that we have a love of flying, and anything aviation.

 

When something like this comes along, for every single person that saw it, there will be a different theory of what "actually happened".

 

The only folks that can tell us that were the crew themselves, and I guess they are a tad busy doing, er, "Please Explain " paperwork...

 

I wonder how the call to the RACV went? ;)

 

Ben

 

BTW, Nomis.... Happy birthday! You are now officially one of us Old Farts...