lost,abandoned crashed planes ww2

[Guest flying high]

hi guys

 

has anyone ever seen any crashed aeroplanes in any countries from ww2 iv heard that in ppng there are lots of crashed planes in the forests is there any other adventurers out there interested in crashed lost abandoned aeroplanes anywere in australia doesnt have to be ww2 i would like to visit or find crashed planes anyone had any experiences

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Hi, Hundreds of lost WW2 aircraft in Australia. Mostly along the far north coast of Queensland. Many Americans got lost on the way to NG. In the late ninties rangers stumbled across a Mitchell Bomber (with crew) just nth of Mackay. I was living near there at the time. It roused my interest. Do some research and don't get caught up in the few "urban myths" about bunkered B25's. Here's a lead for you Charlotte Bay and the Brisbane Line.

 

Good Luck

 

 

[Guest flying high]

mate come on you gotta give me more than that what do you know? im a couple hours out of mackay tell us some stories mate were would i look in government records or newspapers were? i started thinking a long time ago when the had surviver in ppng or was it vanauatu either way there would have to be heaps of unfound planes even ships is there places you can go to look up lost planes

 

 

[Guest flying high]

do you know were i would look to find the root that that the yanks and any other pilots to to ppng as i reckon if you looked for the root sooner or later you would find a downed plane who would you got to american airforce to find out if there were any planes lost and not found on routes to australia

 

 

[Yenn]

Following the route they were supposed to fly is possibly the least reliable way of finding wrecks, for a couple of reasons. The search parties would have searched those areas when the wreckage would have been more visible and the navigation equipment and met. forecasting was nowhere near as good as it is now.

 

It is only a few years since a Liberator was found near here at Kroombit Tops. I had walked within about 500m of the wreck and not seen it. It was only found when there were bushfires and a park ranger saw the vertical fin and went to investigate.

 

 

[Guest flying high]

wow i didny know they found any planes lately what about metal detecting equipement large detectors will this be any use or arial flight im not even sure of the routes they used do you know? iv got some list of the internet that may help il add the link Aviation Archaeology Search Result

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Start off with a rumour and a hunch. research the aircraft and confirm type, location date and area with the offical misssing aircraft list. find some good quality aerial photographs from the fifties if available (low tide) and a big magnifying glass. Bill and Steve Spence from Camden found a Spitfire SW of Darwin on a mud bank in a river. using this method. photos taken from this period would still show vegetation damage from impact or fire in a heavily forested area. weather reports and topo maps of the area help. mountainous terrain, bad wx would lean toward a crash site higher most possibley in a deadend valley either side of track. Are there similar looking landmarks on the map that could easily mistaken in poor viz,. you will find a lost aircraft two ways. painstaking research or just trip over it. The Barringtons north of Newcastle hold a few secrets and a heap of cash in a C210. The Lamingtons NSW QLD border are another area with more missing aircraft the futher you travel north.

 

Now one urbane myth. The underground bunker at Townsville that supooosidly has several Mitchells in it. So people have been looking for it for some time. It pops up in the Media from time to time. It is presumed to be very close to T/ville. Now WW2 had lost of top secret stuff going on so what would they have a setup like this for so close to town. Most probable conclusion would be to fly documents/ high ranking officers in and out of the pacific theatre. fast and covert. Townville had several operation centers that may have had underground access so possible it if it exists it may be in the vicinity of "the castle" But successive searches have failed to find it.

 

So it don't exist. Then maybe the Military don't want it found. But I think everyone has been looking in the wrong place I do. It maybe about 50 or so miles south. May make more sense to have this a little futher out of town away from civi eyes. now if it was and you did not want anyone stumbling across this buried pile of treasure with who knows what that goes bang still inside. How do you keep it safe? Put something on it that has some sort of security. How about a prison farm? When this story came up in the media some years ago a Whitsunday local had said that he had spent 18 mths at this resort. It not only has wire surrounding it but also ground tremble devices ect. he mentioned that there is an area of newer growth in a long wide strip that runs right up to the steep rising hill that is part of the farm. where the strip meets the hill it looks like the hill has slipped. so maybe behind that slip are some big steel doors. Remember as the war was ending Australia was preparing to pull back to the "Brisbane Line" So a lot of secret facilities were simply covered over close to the end easy to get back at it if the American's plan to drop the biggie failed.

 

so at wars end it was just forgotten about.

 

Now the first australian landfall point for retreating to the B/line was a place called Charlotte Bay nth Cairns. It was intended to evac the wounded to here by boat then after treatment truck south.

 

has anyone heard of this place and it's function in the war?

 

sorry to drag it out

 

ozzie

 

 

[Guest Flyer40]

There are some interesting books about aircraft archeology abroad but I haven't seen much on the Australian scene. I have a book that details 110 military crash sites in the UK, most were training missions in the 39-45 period. There must be at least 500 names in the honour roll at the end of the book. What a tragedy.

 

Here's an interesting read

 

http://www.ervinaydin.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/1.pdf

 

And here are some shots of the Catalina wreckage on Lord Howe. Not much of it left except for engines and wings and a sad story of how they just missed clearing the top of the hill by a few feet and came crashing down the other side.

 

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Non-military, there's an accessible site near Fitzroy Falls in NSW where a twin Seneca went in. Most of the wreckage is (was) still in place due to the site being accessible only by foot. But there's not a lot of historical significance in it and I'm not sure what effect souvenir hunters would have had on it.

 

BTW I recall around the late 70's there was an annual expedition into the Burragarong area west of Camden to look for a Dragon Rapide or similar that was lost without trace. Does anyone know how that turned out?

 

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[Steve L]

I was in Bougainville PNG in 68 + 69 where, when taking a couple of kanakas on the back of a 4 x 4 traytop to pick up some thatched roof sections for a donga they were building for my family, I saw in the distance something glistening like aluminium amongst the jungle. (I was standing on the roof of the traytop 'cause of snakes!). The natives tried to stop me from going over there as they were scared ****less of it - so I went alone to investigate. I found a Japanese war plane with the skeletal remains of the pilot still in the seat.........and THAT's the first time I experienced a truly cold chill! Upon getting back to the village, I told the local missionary/law enforcement officer and in a matter of weeks the wreckage was removed.

 

Thought nothing more of it for years (I was only 15 at the time) until 2006 whilst travelling in the U.S., we stopped at a Southwest private air museum to discover almost an exact replica of what I saw back then, still in the same decayed state that I remembered (minus the skeleton). I can't help wondering if it was indeed the same plane that I saw all those years ago. Anyway, I will dig up the photos I took of the US one and post it as soon as I can find them. Steve

 

 

[Guest flying high]

mate

 

man you guys have a got a lot of info you know it would be great if we could put together a group of people to go looking for these planes we have half the problem covered with the aerial coverage and it sounds like ooyu guys have got some serious info between the 2 of yous im excited just hearing about these stories now iv never heard of these bunker stories or lost cash in planes for me it would be just finding something that hasnt seen people for 65 years have a think about it guys get your info the closest you can get to facts an keep putting it up there and we will put it together and see what we can make of it thanx heaps guys for all y6our help il put a couple more links on to look at

 

Accident Reports.com USAAF, USAF, USN, & USMC Aircraft Accident Reports 1918-1955

 

WRECKCHASING

 

ADF Serials - RAAF A16 Lockheed Hudson

 

AIRCRAFT CRASHES RECORD OFFICE

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

There is a person who lives in Airlie Beach i can't remember his name. He was gettting on in years. but he had some copies of photos and some artifacts in the Catilina Bar at Shute hbr airport. he spent many years researching and tracking down lost ww2 aircraft throughou the pacific islands. some searches were paid for by relatives of the missing pilots. If Adam Holt is still at Airlie, maybe he can find out his name and see if he is still alive. I spoke to him twice about ten years ago and was given a couple of leads from him.

 

Chances are that Rapide is in the bottom of warragmba dam with the rest of the missing.

 

When i spent some time at Temora, when all the old RAAF building foundations were still there. i used the old aerial photo of the airport that is hanging in the aeroclub to locate the dump and workshop areas found some interesting bits and pieces.

 

ozzie

 

 

[Guest flying high]

so do tell what is the story what was the important cargo lost by some of these planes i havn't heard any of these stories and as for bunker i thought that was strictly a German thing i didn't know Australia had made bunkers and caves!!! i spoke to a guy in the usa from there military crash site who said that the yanks didn't report planes lost in Australia as they weren't thought important enough or maybe they didn't want to have to report what they were doing in foreign country's who knows either way there would still be a lot of secrets out there to be found i heard the story about the dutch plain that was shot on the beaches at broome i think that had apparently gold on board but i think most of the gold was recovered i live just outside Brisbane so if there are any recks lost out my way i would like to start with them and work my way up the east coast as for aerial photos and all that i wouldn't have a clue were to start so any info you have would be great a head start is always needed when searching for ghosts. ha ha....

 

Air Pirates

 

you have to check this site out it has some great photos:thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

In my home country - the Netherlands - there is this nice big patch of reclaimed land in the center, pumped dry in the 50s. Driving through it, you will see a lot of small hills in an otherwise perfectly flat landscape.

 

Some are shipwrecks, but also a fair few of them would be WW2 planes as it was a main route into northern Germany and so lot of aerial battles would have taken place over it. I found about 120 airplanes were shot down there.

 

I believe that when they pumped it dry, they often just (tried to) identify them and taken out munitions, then covered them over. Some would have been recovered over the years by enthusiasts, but I wonder how many are still there!

 

 

[Guest flying high]

cool Europe would have so many crashed planes to find it would be like Christmas every day for a plane hunter i must admit it would be a great souvenir having a machine gun from a fighter plane on the wall in the pool room talking of Europe i would love to go find the secret tunnels that the nazis stored all there loot in that they plundered from Europe Herman goering stashed half the valuable of Europe somewhere just got to find it there are shows on foxtel about the secret tunnels in Europe i reckon they would be lucky to have found 50% of them so there would still be a lot of loot to find thanx for your input this has been great:thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

I think most of them would have been cleaned up soon after the war and even during, understandably without a thought to preservation. It is only ones in inaccessible places that would have been left and other than deep water, there isn't a whole lot of places that are inaccessible or unpopulated in Europe.

 

And in the North Sea and Mediterranean, fishing trawlers would have shred a fair few to pieces over the years.

 

I think you are more likely to find wrecks in this neck of the woods - jungle, mangroves, etc are perfect hiding places for plane wrecks.

 

 

[Guest flying high]

i think your right the forests are great for hiding planes especially Australian forests the hardest part is finding which planes got lost were as they only had paper records back then and even they were rarely filled out for Aussie and ppng theater of war plane losses i have to ask do you hold any hard feeling towards the Germans for ww2 or does any countries peoples in Europe for that matter

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Nah, we just make fun of them - they lost after all! :big_grin:

 

Seriously though, none of the Germans I know were of military age in those days.

 

And a lot of Europeans are waking up to the reality of 20th century history, rather than the history dictated in textbooks on government dictated syllabuses for most of the century.

 

There are still some incredible bigot retards in this world, though, like some my brother once encountered a few years ago: My brother's wife's mum is German and so his son in "quarter german". They (Americans, some Jewish) were of the opinion my brother should raise his son to feel responsibility, guilt and shame for what Germany did to Jews in WW2. His then 9-month old son. Sheesh...

 

 

[Guest flying high]

hey its not his fault the Russians had more to blame nearly in the idea that everyone forgets that the Russians moved in on Poland from the rear and also took there chunk of other small countries before Hitler turned on Stalin which was bound to happen as Hitler was a compulsive liar i will say that he did some good for Germany in the beginning ,unemployment,rearmament,and also giving the German people there pride back but unfortunately he wanted what was not his but i guess the victor is never charged with war crimes and a 1000 year Reich is along time

 

Moderated by Ian, reason - language

 

 

[Yenn]

I don't hold hard feelings for the Germans in the war, and I was there when they were dropping bombs every night. I was 9 when the war finished but I still have my war wound. I ripped my leg open on a barbed wire fence when the buzz bomb came towards me. It crashed about a mile away with some loss of life. I have worked with Germans in Australia, one of whom was in the Hitler Youth. All good people, which is more than I can say for the Japanese I have worked with. They are as arrogant as the Poms and I should know coming from England.

 

 

[Guest flying high]

i have to agree about the japanese even worse are the chinese i do buisness with them every day and they are stuborn and rude at times the 1 think i have to give the germans is they new the meaning of training and preparation and of course you have to love the volkswagon and porche funny thing i was reading a book by albert speer and in it he goes into great detail about ferdinand porche and his work with adolf hitler apparently they were great friends porche even did a prototype tank for hitler but was beaten by another company its amazing how many of the company today that are major names such as mercedes.porche,and many others were born threw hitlers coming of power it was amazing how when the cold war started the west almost forgave many guilty nazis due to wanting there help against the russians who emerged as the strongest power in europe i myself am in my mid 20,s but how i wish i was born in the 1920,s as the world we know was shaped in these vital years from 1920-1950

 

 

[Guest flying high]

i too am half english and half italian as you can guess i am constantly struggling with myself !!!!! ha ha:hittinghead:

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

so do tell what is the story what was the important cargo lost by some of these planes i havn't heard any of these stories and as for bunker i thought that was strictly a German thing i didn't know Australia had made bunkers and caves!!! :thumb_up:

Important cargo... the lost 210 in barrington mountains was carrring some bookies from an interstate race meet went missing proberbly 20 so years ago. pilot reported icing in cloud never heard from again. Broome area ww2 aircraft with gold / diamonds on board crashed in water near shore. gold diamonds never found. it was reported that a couple of locals of "interest" never seemed to be 'short of a quid'.

 

Bunkers..... lets have a quick look at Sydney. most of these places are now well and truly off limits thanks to world events. but during the 70's i don't think that even the govt knew they were there. Every city has some sort of tunnell network New York goes futher down than what ever it went up. The area around the GPO buiding in Sydney carried just about all the military communications. telephone telegram networks located underground spread out thru underground access to various centres of operations around the CBD. It was possible to access this network from either Macquarie or Bligh streets. One section was used by Macarther to oversee the Pacific Theater. Sydney Harbour had a walkable tunnell long before the drivable one. I worked in the city circle rail network for several mths and came across the original flooded eastern suburbs attempt. proved to be a brilliant place for the works xmas party. the original water supply for sydney is still there, it is just under Pitt St. Ever wonder where all those man holes went? out near BK up on the hill was an immense underground facility. that could be accessed from someones backyard. this was all stripped out and filled when the owner of the property started advertising tours.

 

for some reason i never found the time to have a close look around BK when i worked there.. just to busy.. but it was active during the war and some poor bulldozer driver got the fright of his life when he looked over his shoulder and saw he had exposed two rows of bombs that had been buried in a shallow trench.

 

Camden has a active history with ww2 there is a bunker to the left as you drive into the airport, another down near the river just left of glider strip but unfortunatly was flooded out. found the location of this when the groundsman was leveling some ground near the taxyway and unearth a bundle of old phone lines. out with the metal detector and off we went. during the construction of Camden they changed the course of the river and put the weir and bend in it. later when the FAC did a clean up and burn it turned out that a lot of old misquitos were dumped here. ocassional flareup from the magnesium in the wheels laying in the soil. bugger, all the old metalparts were still laying in the undergrowth and bulldozed up and burnt. .

 

No doubt the biggest unfound tunnel myth would have to be the one from the Lithgow Small Arms Factory to the old submarine base in Nth Sydney.

 

 

 

[Guest flying high]

mate were did you get your info you are a good bloke to know i never knew there were so many tunnels around australia im going to look into some of these tunnels as like most adventurers i love tunnels as well were do you go to find these clues and more info have you ever gone looking for lost downed planes and were any of the tunnels connected to ammo dumps i have heard about the broom plane i thought that was the japs that raided broom and got the plane on the beach and the locals got some of the loot? is there any better in fo on the internet to look on this kind of info?

 

 

[Guest flying high]

links

 

http://www.lithgow-tourism.com/smallarms.htm

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I had an uncle who was a head linesman for the PMG (post master general) all his working life, he had the biggest bunch of keys i ever seen. I found out about the CBD tunnells from him.

 

www.awm.gov.au/research/bibliographies/ww2.asp

 

try this site, good place to start for lost Aussie hardware.

 

Ozzie