Qantas Grounded

[Litespeed]

Top idea Turbo-

 

I will consult my brains trust, finance, HR and ethics.

 

And reply.

 

Phil

 

 

[Litespeed]

I am now off to meet the finance and retail experts................

 

Off to bottleshop for beer.

 

 

[dazza 38]

COB

What does COB mean?

 

 

[Litespeed]

Close of Business - When stock market shuts for the day.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Thank you Lightspeed.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Dazz we are all expecting the Q stock value to rise as a result of the latest outcomes.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Dazz we are all expecting the Q stock value to rise as a result of the latest outcomes.

It did today.

Apart from all the posturing now, most will still fly Qantas when all is forgiven after a few months and a bit of discounting gets their wallets out.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

So far the market has been luke warm.

 

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/qantas-faces-possible-ratings-cut-20111031-1mrvr.html

 

 

[Litespeed]

I would not be too quick to think the customers will forgive and forget.

 

A large shift in customers to mainly Virgin is all but guaranteed, they have staff who are liked by the employer and vis versa. The public will not forget that easily and can get a good price from their competition.

 

The Qantas Board and Alan Joyce have poisoned the relationship with the staff, and completely lost the confidence of the customer.

 

The International news this has made is huge and now makes Qantas International a Endangered Species.

 

It is not just the pissed off customers who were effected and stuck in LA or missed their once in a life time holiday. It is that every prospective customer in future will have a very strong association of Qantas equals possible disaster of holidays or business.

 

So this will have long term effects on Qantas and its viability, the same goes with Qantas here.

 

Under the reign of Joyce shareholder value has dropped over a $billion, the share price has tanked, the workforce is rightly hostile and all loyalty lost.

 

Now the customer base has been used as pawns in his plans. This has made a serious destruction of brand value that is Qantas.

 

The shareholders and that includes the institutional ones as well need to Sack the lot and bring in forensic accountants.

 

Nothing short of a complete clean sweep can make any real effect at resurrecting the airlines fortunes.

 

 

[winsor68]

This will not go away overnight... The Corporate Qantas guests who are now VB guests will not change back in a hurry... They were the last handouts... the number of highest level Qantas frequent flyer tags on VB bags has gone through the roof... and it started before AJs stunt.

 

 

[Litespeed]

Turboplaner suggested for a plan to get Qantas problems solved and asked for ideas............

 

On the basis that you were in charge, what you would do.........

 

So here goes.

 

A multipoint plan to get the Red Roo back in its rightful place and earn profits.

 

• Call a meeting with Federal police, ASIC, CASA et al and make a plain case for suspicion of illegal activity with fraud, corporations and aviation laws. I would explain that Qantas is wanting their assistance to protect them from criminal activities of directors, board etc.
   
   
  

 

 

This may seem a strange strategy to success but is a huge positive for the company and the most sensible direction.

 

It would allow the real problem with the company to be removed and justice be done as the evidence dictates.

 

The public would be greatly relieved and feel change has happened and Qantas is worthy of respect and flying with.

 

It would provide a complete circuit breaker on staffing problems.

 

• Create a new management team of people with airline experience including poaching from Virgin and others.
   
   
  

 

 

 

 

 

• Get a new board with staff having two board members that they appoint.
   
   
  
• Provide a share ownership plan in Industrial awards and encourage workers to be shareholders.
   
   
  

 

 

Now not only are the staff on your side, but they have a voice at the top and are also shareholders.

 

Staff are now your greatest asset rather than the enemy.

 

• Invest in much better aircraft to get better metrics and lower fuel costs. The failure to select the right aircraft and turn over a ancient fleet has been a considerable cost and reduced profitability.
   
   
  
• I would reverse the offshoring of maintenance and maximise the value of talent and safety.
   
   
  
• Naturally I would ensure the accounts are real and not fictional based on cost shifting. True accounting alone may find a far different to the spin.
   
   
  

 

 

 

Now thats the first things Qantas under me would do.

 

What ya think?

 

 

[HeadInTheClouds]

Apparently the first flight back into the air was an A380 to Melbourne.... allegedly with no passengers on board. Now that is logic......

 

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/live-coverage-qantas-ordered-back-in-the-air-20111031-1mqtm.html

 

 

[turboplanner]

Turboplaner suggested for a plan to get Qantas problems solved and asked for ideas............On the basis that you were in charge, what you would do.........

 

So here goes.

 

Will think on it overnight. Good effort

 

A multipoint plan to get the Red Roo back in its rightful place and earn profits.

 

• Call a meeting with Federal police, ASIC, CASA et al and make a plain case for suspicion of illegal activity with fraud, corporations and aviation laws. I would explain that Qantas is wanting their assistance to protect them from criminal activities of directors, board etc.
   
   
  

 

 

This may seem a strange strategy to success but is a huge positive for the company and the most sensible direction.

 

It would allow the real problem with the company to be removed and justice be done as the evidence dictates.

 

The public would be greatly relieved and feel change has happened and Qantas is worthy of respect and flying with.

 

It would provide a complete circuit breaker on staffing problems.

 

• Create a new management team of people with airline experience including poaching from Virgin and others.
   
   
  

 

 

 

 

 

• Get a new board with staff having two board members that they appoint.
   
   
  
• Provide a share ownership plan in Industrial awards and encourage workers to be shareholders.
   
   
  

 

 

Now not only are the staff on your side, but they have a voice at the top and are also shareholders.

 

Staff are now your greatest asset rather than the enemy.

 

• Invest in much better aircraft to get better metrics and lower fuel costs. The failure to select the right aircraft and turn over a ancient fleet has been a considerable cost and reduced profitability.
   
   
  
• I would reverse the offshoring of maintenance and maximise the value of talent and safety.
   
   
  
• Naturally I would ensure the accounts are real and not fictional based on cost shifting. True accounting alone may find a far different to the spin.
   
   
  

 

 

 

Now thats the first things Qantas under me would do.

 

What ya think?

[dazza 38]

The share price rose a massive 6 cents.I just watched Dick Smith on TV .He said pretty much what I have been saying, or more to the point we have got our information from the same source. In regards to QI loosing money. It will be very interesting if Nick Xenophon(spelling), does get a inquiry going to realy find out if A- QI is being proped up by Jetstar and Co. Or B- QI has been subsidizing Jetstar and Co.And making QI look bad ie- not profitable. Very interesting.

 

 

[facthunter]

You've bravely exposed a few of the problems there. Back Nick Xenophon with his push. He must be getting a lot of information from inside . Some of that would need filtering. ( As is always the case).

 

The slate must be cleared. There is a lot of bad blood and mistrust. (Understandably). Modern management doesn't seem to put a value on this, but I think they are wrong. Airlines don't operate well with a bad staff-management relationship. Qantas has been a sacred cow for most of it's existence and had protection from competition, It was the annointed one. None of this continues in the modern environment.

 

Have they attempted to orchestrate something that might have crossed the acceptable test and maybe the legal test as well. After all, being able to join a Union without being victimised was supposed to be sacrosanct an part ot the UN and the ILO rules and conventions which Australia is signatory to..

 

Again , a gamble. A big gamble.. The passengers have borne the brunt of it so far and a lot of them too. Bit uncaring and they normally do look after the pax. remember the volcano thing in Europe ..Nev

 

 

[David Isaac]

As much as the whole debacle was really frustrating for all passengers, I will still always fly Qantas by preference.

 

Don't get me wrong they have really pissed me off several times over the years but when the chips are down and things go wrong due weather, mechanical, cancellation or other, they have more aircraft domestically than the others and will simply put you on another aircraft and get you there on the next available flight. I remember one morning they made three attempts to get me to Melbourne with two turn backs ... they just kept trying to get me there. Try that with Virgin or Jetstar ... good luck ... you can be stuck in the terminal all day and get no compensation or you just have to go home. I have colleagues on Virgin going to the same conference as me and having cancellations due weather and Qantas eventually got me there and my colleagues had to go home.

 

Sure I am a Gold member and you get certain priviledges, but when weather or mechanical or other happens they will still get you there or home whether you are gold or not.

 

 

[kgwilson]

We can't see the future but we can learn from the past.

 

Once the emotion subsides, Qantas will continue. There will be new and innovative changes to get bums on seats and maybe all will not be forgiven but it will be forgotten & life within the cut-throat world of commercial aviation will continue.

 

This is my prediction based on the past.

 

 

[Powerin]

As much as the whole debacle was really frustrating for all passengers, I will still always fly Qantas by preference.Don't get me wrong they have really pissed me off several times over the years but when the chips are down and things go wrong due weather, mechanical, cancellation or other, they have more aircraft domestically than the others and will simply put you on another aircraft and get you there on the next available flight. I remember one morning they made three attempts to get me to Melbourne with two turn backs ... they just kept trying to get me there. Try that with Virgin or Jetstar ... good luck ... you can be stuck in the terminal all day and get no compensation or you just have to go home. I have colleagues on Virgin going to the same conference as me and having cancellations due weather and Qantas eventually got me there and my colleagues had to go home.

Sure I am a Gold member and you get certain priviledges, but when weather or mechanical or other happens they will still get you there or home whether you are gold or not.

I guess that's where the trade-offs are. You can rely on Qantas (mostly) to get you there, which leads to high customer satisfaction and brand loyalty. To do this you need a lot of planes, and enough pilots and crew that you have room to move with rosters when things go wrong. And you pay for the privilege.

With the likes of Jetstar or Tiger, you have a limited number of aircraft on tight schedules. They are probably on lease, or on tight finance, which means every minute on the ground is costing you money. With the tight schedules, you need half hour turn-arounds, minimal crew, and razor thin margins on crew rosters. The end result is cheaper fares, but one small mechanical fault or crew problem throws a spanner in the works leading to delays or cancellations. Even if you find a serviceable aircraft to make the flight, chances are you don't have adequately rested crew that can legally fly it (or so I've heard from a small RPT insider). You have high customer dissatisfaction...but hopefully low enough prices for the customers to put up with a 70% chance of getting there on time (or at all).

 

Hopefully Qantas can sustain their business model, but one has to wonder, given recent events, if the model is to bury Qantas (and some strategic blunders by management with it) while building up an airline unencumbered by the privatisation conditions Qantas has.

 

 

[Litespeed]

Standard and Poors have downgraded Qantas from stable to negative. They cite the stunt on the weekend as causing significant reputation damage to the brand.

 

Joyce has Gambled way to much and soon the markets will speak.

 

This debacle was actually the biggest topic on twitter worldwide over the weekend. That is similar levels to Gadaffi been killed, but Qantas will keep generating news and tweets, blogs etc for a long time to come.

 

The sheer size of the media attention overseas has propelled Qantas to every ones attention in the worst possible light.

 

The value of the brand Qantas International is diving by the hour.

 

We all live in interesting times.

 

 

[Litespeed]

Here is from Crikey.

 

AIPA President Captain Barry Jackson said Mr Joyce’s repeated claim that he made the decision to ground the entire Qantas fleet in a snap decision on Saturday was suspect in the extreme and a full judicial inquiry should be held into the circumstances.

 

“Mr Joyce’s claim, that he made this disgraceful and reckless decision on Saturday, is very tough to believe,” Captain Jackson said.

 

“We understand hotel rooms were booked all over the globe on Thursday. The couriers who delivered lock-out notices to pilots yesterday were booked last week. Qantas management representatives at Fair Work Australia even admitted on Saturday that preparations for a possible grounding had been underway for ten days.

 

“Mr Joyce needs to be provide all the facts about how long he has planned to abandon unsuspecting Qantas passengers.“If it is true that Mr Joyce planned this action in advance then he needs to explain to Qantas passengers why he continued to sell them tickets.”

 

“Here we have a CEO who pocketed a two million dollar pay rise on Friday, stranded 68,000 passengers around the globe on Saturday, tried to pin the blame on the government on Sunday and then thinks he can claim victory and walk away scot-free on Monday.

 

Love the last sentence.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Genuine question for the many pro union / strike / Labor folk here - why no anger against Virgin?

 

Virgin pay staff less, in many cases quite a bit less.

 

Virgin uses contractors.

 

Virgin often service their A/C overseas.

 

Virgins boss JB has a higher base salary than does AJ (despite the airline making little or no profit).

 

Virgin have offered no job security guarantees to staff.

 

Can you please explain why there is no industrial action at all against Virgin by the exact same unions? Or Tiger if you will?

 

 

[facthunter]

Let's not categorise people by the views they express, because then all of us won't read what the other half has written. I can see both sides and I also have more information than I can disclose on a public forum.

 

To the question. It would seem that the Company, Virgin specifically have better staff/management relations. They're not perfect but they work on it. In Qantas they don't trust each other. Some of that is a management responsibility and some of it may be due to entrenched ideas.

 

Modern Business Management policy is OFTEN designed to create a climate of uncertainty as to job security. The thought music being along the lines of " the worker works harder if he/she is not sure of having their job Monday" I have always questioned this, as a proposition.

 

Perhaps the reaction might be " I will stick this job out only till I can find some other place where I will be appreciated".

 

Pilots of course, if they have been in the company a while can't normally leave and start with another company who don't easily integrate a senior pilot into their workforce .

 

I'm not saying this is exactly what applies at Qantas, but it is clear that the relationship is in a bad way. Does the management care? I don't know but if they do then they go about it in a odd way.

 

All managers probably dream of a world where there are no Unions/lawyers etc and they can just to what they like with their workforce, but that is not the real world. I'm informed that Ryan Air and PSA work with their staff well. Perhaps someone can inform me as to the correctness of that.

 

When I was doing a Psychology course at Univ of NSW in the 60's( I was studying psychology of industrial relations) the lecturer informed us all of a couple of companies who had excellent staff relations. They were Linkweld and Victa at Bankstown. ( Merv Richardson). Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Anything with the virgin name attached to it smacks of a scam.

 

 

[JimG]

I also watched Dick Smith on the tele tonight and I believe most of what he said is spot on . Once the Gov allowed free skys in Australia, the Australian international carrier struggles to compete with the overseas carriers because of the cost of labour. Simple as that, blame whoever you want , this is just the facts.

 

JimG

 

 

[turboplanner]

Jim, you have it in a nutshell. That was the wind of change which Qantas is yet to address and where all the pain is coming from. If the price of a kilo of steak is $7.00 you can't charge $24.00.