Qantas Grounded

[turboplanner]

I used to dread having to do group projects and getting stuck with them. There was this one Indian guy who acted like a prince, his way or the highway. You only have to look @ the rubbish cars that China and India put out to see that they have trouble sourcing good engineers and managers.

If you'd taken the time to read my post F_T, you'd realise the principle of lead time. The engineers of today will be producing the vehicles we are talking about. The ones you are referring to were designed by the engineers of the past up to a decade ago. Things have changed, and in some cases our Universities have gained financially in providing the new knowledge.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Jump in the turboplanner mobile and head to your local Suzuki dealership and drive an Alto. :roflmao:And then drive a Swift.

 

We are getting sidetracked from our Alan Joyce appreciation.

 

 

[facthunter]

Joyce was questioned by a collection of senators today. Does anyone know how it went? Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

A couple of them, including Bob Brown made idiots of themselves by going too far, didn't know for example that Qantas could legally lockout.

 

 

[Admin]

Qantas is saying sorry with free flights:

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/free-flights-as-qantas-says-sorry.29393/

 

 

[facthunter]

be a joke if it wasn't real money and resources wasted.Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

Both sides really know where they have to go. It's so much easier and less expensive to sit down and say "How are we going to get there"

 

 

[dazza 38]

Update- I just read a article on the free tickets.They are saying that anybody that was disrupted due to the grounding,ie- had tickets and there flight was cancelled. Can get a free economy return ticket on any destination in Australia or a return economy Tran Tasman ticket.They also said that Frequent flyers are getting a bonus, although it didnt say what that bonus is.(Source- is from Bigpond news).

 

 

[facthunter]

Has to be GOOD FACE bargaining, not running an episode of an agenda.. I have real diffficulties with the rules that apply and the way industrial relations are structured. Heavy handed tactics by either side do not help unless there is a total win/defeat and IF there is no trust you have a problem too.

 

IF the only people who get big salaries are the strongly unionised workers, then the others are left behind.

 

If you are part of a large workforce ( metalworkers teachers nurses ) then it's hard to get because there is such a lot of money involved and it often involves governments as the employer.

 

Ceo's just decide how much they want and essentially take it. There's not many of them so it doesn't hurt the bottom line. ( Just pisses everyone else off who can but marvel at their greed and conceit to imagine that ANYBODY could imjagine they are worth the sort of sums we are talking about).

 

Wholesale wage rises just fuel inflation and any savings you have is diluted and anyone on a fixed income is stuffed. Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

You can't live and work in Sydney on a McDonald's wages. You end up with a workforce that lacks any commitment to long term viability of the business.

 

 

[facthunter]

That's certainly a factor. Sydney is not a cheap place to live. You also have to recognise qualifications and the responsibilities/liabilities of LICENCED personnel.

 

It's while since senior management took a walk through maintenance sections of an airline. It's not something they know much about. ( except the costs which can be interpreted creatively) Nev

 

 

[Litespeed]

So Qantas makes a token apology to customers with a free flight for 100,000 people and thinks that will make up with customers?

 

How much will those free flights cost at Qantas rates?

 

Given the freebies are trans tasman and unlimited destination in Australia, so what Perth or Darwin or....

 

That is going to be a huge bill- maybe average $500 minimum return in lost sales- so $50 million alone, add in FFP goodies yet to be announced, the huge PR bill that will continue for months.

 

and all for a ego trip.

 

Top stuff

 

give than man a laced cigar.

 

 

[dazza 38]

So Qantas makes a token apology to customers with a free flight for 100,000 people and thinks that will make up with customers?How much will those free flights cost at Qantas rates?

 

Given the freebies are trans tasman and unlimited destination in Australia, so what Perth or Darwin or....

 

That is going to be a huge bill- maybe average $500 minimum return in lost sales- so $50 million alone, add in FFP goodies yet to be announced, the huge PR bill that will continue for months.

 

and all for a ego trip.

 

Top stuff

 

give than man a laced cigar.

They are saying the total cost of the grounding and free flights are costing them at total of $50 Million.

 

 

[turboplanner]

"The airline's chief executive, Alan Joyce, said the tickets, valued at $20 million, were Qantas's way of saying "we are sorry".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Qantas also will offer a bonus to all Frequent Flyer members, though Mr Joyce says the airline has not finalised exact details.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The flights giveaway brings to $50 million the total cost of the grounding, including about $30 million for the two days that flights were cancelled."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Melbourne Herald Sun

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The giveaway is $20 million. Compare that with the weekly losses before Alan Joyce brought it to a head.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The result of a big spend now rather than sucking their thumbs is going to be that most of the disgruntled passengers will be gruntled.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't think that's a wise business decision?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Qantas made $500M odd profit last year?

 

 

[dazza 38]

Qantas made $500M odd profit last year?

QANTAS Group Net Profit was $249Million from what I read in Australian Aviation. T/O

was 14.73 Billion. I guess thats not alot of profit considering the T/O.

 

 

[Litespeed]

Yes I think it is a stupid decision.

 

The whole line of had to act to badly to stop losses are smoke and mirrors and entirely self inflicted.

 

Given the knowledge of strike action and lead times involved it is very doubtful Qantas had to suffer such losses but rather chose to as part of its campaign against staff.

 

And any claims about financial losses are hard to believe given their track record.

 

Qantas had chosen to make losses and damage its workforce and public relations.

 

The $249 million is after a number of expenses that should have been mitigated by better management decisions.

 

This level of profit is actually a reasonable return for shareholders given the 3.53 billion in shareholder assets and given the turmoil management have caused.

 

And that is after a number of big hits after natural and human disasters hit profit big time.

 

I am not saying they should not try to make ammends with customers but should not have put it self in this place to start with.

 

I have no faith in any claims about costs of this esp when the ACCC has forced qantas to compensate at far greater levels than Joyce was calculating.

 

Many of the international customers will now charge for total cost of the holiday they lost, including hotel bookings, cruises, tours, other expenses etc.

 

I would be surprised if direct money back to international customers does not exceed $20 million alone in cash and that is a low estimate. Add in the lost fares, payment of hotels, payment to other airlines for tickets and a a heap of others costs and this will be a huge bill.

 

Same goes for local flights.

 

Some in finance are stating at least $100 million in direct costs are expected in the first week and totals when all settles down in 6 months of at least $250 million and much greater future costs due to loss of good will and market share.

 

Add this to the over $Billion lost in shareholder value since playing hard ball with staff and that means $1.25 billion in loss for playing hardball and all with no gain.

 

They could have burnt jet aircraft on the tarmac for a fireworks display and cancelled insurance and be in a similar spot.

 

So want to learn how to commit commercial suicide?

 

Joyce has a great track record.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Very modest, a bit better than the auto industry.