Head in the clouds Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Breaking news - It seems the cargo shifted on takeoff. Warning - graphic video http://rt.com/news/us-plane-crash-afghanistan-649/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Ovious pitch control problems. The wings leveled very quickly just before impact. Wonder if that is related to ground effect. Boeing probably can get useful information from this tragedy-no test pilot would want to re-create that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Unrestrained load heading aft after rotating and starting to climb? Edit: just read what HITC said in the first post. That would have been a very terrible few moments at the controls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 oh fxxx is right....somebody forgot to tighten up the load straps, that thing pretty much stopped before stalling. Impressive stall turn even for a Boeing, looked like a -400................................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 No recovery possible from that. nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 No not a chance ....shame really......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongie Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 oh wow.. that is nasty... sickening actually... only 'good' thing is at least the poor bastards wouldnt have been in pain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 What incredible footage. Poor buggas didnt have a hope.. Someones ass is gunna get kicked over this one. Thank god it wasn't a passenger jet. Horrible.. What im shocked at, is the guy in the car did not react at all. He didnt say a word, make a noise, swear or anything. The shock perhaps for him was surreal. Bloody terrible...:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Why did the army truck drive away from the scene just after impact? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoLRVUK_CPM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 If you keep listening motz he does eventually say "oh shxx !".........................real bummer, maybe that last truck they put on right at the back was full of smuggled weapons or souvenirs. Reminds me of an episode at Oakland Airport in California when I was loading/unloading night freight for United Parcel Service (UPS) one night. We were unloading a DC-8 Cargo plane which has a tail stand attached at the back, that stays about 2 feet above the ground when all is well. Cargo containers are all on rollers, and are removed forward ones first, from the cargo door just behind the cockpit. That is to say the rearmost tail ones come out last. We were down to the two last tail containers when the tail-stand hit the tarmac !!......NOT a normal situation, and one that can cause severe damage to the main landing gear bogies, if this happens. Orders came "all out !"...and one big guy only was allowed to go in and remove the two last containers, which again put the tailstand 2 Ft above the concrete !. On weighing the very last container it was found to be twice it's max allowable weight, and twice what was on the load manifest !....someone in Mesquite Texas where it was loaded, had had a bad day !!. We also we loaded 747 freighters. It always amazed me just how much freight they consumed each night. The floor in a 747 without interior, is amazing in area...just like a small football field, with a small single metal ladder leading up to the cockpit at the front. A six hour shift loading the special "jumbo boxes" which are the size of a small room (5000Lbs from memory), would simply disappear into one aircraft, and be gone !!...something like 30-40 boxes, and just a load of freight !.... even at 5000lbs, it was easy to manoeuvre these large containers by one man, with everything on rollers, including the aircraft cabin floor. That's why tying everything down properly, and setting all the floor locks was so crucial......................Maj...(yes , i did once work for a living !) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Eightyknots, probabily thought the thing was going to blow...but it already had...people do strange things in situations like this...maybe he had a load of explosives on board...what would you do ????.......even in a vehical they would have felt the impact and maybe the shock wave .........Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owi Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Why did the army truck drive away from the scene just after impact? Actually, he was backing away just before impact. I guess he wanted to avoid being hit by possible flying debris or the shockwave. That was possibly a full fuel load. What I find interesting is that the camera appears to show the date of February 1 - did this happen so long ago or was the camera's date set wrong? Still, an awful, terrible scene. I feel for the crew's families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 They said peviously that the cam date was set incorrectly.................yes sad day for some..........................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying dog Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Just watched it on the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Evans Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Sorry for the crew some one made a major mistake in loading from the look of things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Wonder who has the final responsibility in loading and securing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Wonder who has the final responsibility in loading and securing? I thought that too: is it the PIC who has ultimate responsibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Wonder who has the final responsibility in loading and securing? There was a load master on board and generally the load master is ultimately responsible for the weight and balance and load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru7252 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Maybe the pilot was showing off and lost it. That's what happend to that B52. Looked like he stalled off the top of a very steep climb. However, like most, I am only speculating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 I don't think he was trying out a wing over or stall turn. The weight and balance calculations by the loadmaster would be state of the art, and provide many methods of calculating the COG of the freight items, whether it be easy to measure cubes, or complex shapes. I would think also that he would be checking his securing equipment, which he lives with every flight. Sometimes there are cases where forwarders understate their weights, and although the Russians use on-board load cells under the entrance area rollers, maybe some aircraft don't, and it's always a great joke among Americans when they get away with it. For that to be a cause the understated weights would have to be out of the rear of the envelope. There can also be an issue if an object can roll, and one lashing point fails. Kinetic energy then takes over and the rest become overloaded and the object goes crashing back. Some loads can internally displace of the lashing doe not apply sufficient friction - for example in a bundle of steel lengths, the inner lengths sometimes slide. I'm not suggesting these are causes, just that freight is tricky and sometimes unpredictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 When departing that airfield they climb as steeply as possible to avoid possible ground fire from the Taliban this would put a fair bit of load tension on the cargo. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Ovious pitch control problems. The wings leveled very quickly just before impact. Wonder if that is related to ground effect. I wouldn't think so. Ground effect is a consequence of the production of lift from the wings. If it's stalled, it's not producing lift, so no ground effect. I thought that too: is it the PIC who has ultimate responsibility? Not sure about specialised freighters, but the PIC is not responsible for load security on commercial jets. It's just too impractical for him to get down there and check container locks, etc in all the cargo holds. This responsibility in commercial airlines normally falls upon the Leading Hand who is in charge of the loading. PIC just signs for the dangerous goods notification and that the numbers are correct. My view from looking at the climbout angle is that a load shift is most likely. The cargo was wheeled cargo, I believe. Improper restraint could easily have caused it to roll back upon rotate. I've taken off a B767 virtually empty at full thrust. It's eye opening for sure , but the climbout angle is still "only" 20-25 deg nose up. This guy seemed to be way more than that, which seems to indicate that he had already lost control at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Quite sobering to see someone's last moments on this earth, would've been terrifying to know it was all over well before hitting the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 yeah to be honest, they showed that on the news last night without any sort of warning, not really something I wanted to see without knowing - esp while just learning... that is going to be burned into my mind for a long time. I will be very anxious to see the report on this one, it would be an interesting one for Air Crash Investigations to do a piece on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 It's a really good time now for everyone to have a think about the importance of CoG and load restraint/limitations, whether you fly an ultralight, a Cessna, or a Boeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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