ASIC Cards

[Guest WillMikoyan]

Is there someone out there who can explain to me, in plain English, if I need an ASIC card.

 

I am a sixteen year old, who is just starting flying training at Essendon Airport. Do I need to get an ASIC card, now before I start training?

 

I've been getting conflicting advice about it, one part of the casa websites says one thing another part says a completely different thing, and so on with other aviation organisations!

 

Thanks to anyone who can help!

 

 

[sixtiesrelic]

ASIC card

 

It's only MY point of view... You shouldn't really need one till you do solo cross countries.

 

Ask at the flying school.

 

Seems to me you will be covered by the school in it's tarmac area and when you're with an instructor.

 

I'd wait till closer to the time you are going to do solo cross countries.

 

If you find you don't like flying as much as you thought you'll have saved the money the stupid things cost.

 

Murphy's Law .... if you don't get one at the start, there's more chance you'll require one later because you continue with your training.

 

You're going to learn ALL about CASA and their ambiguity and total disregard for common sense.

 

 

[Guest lonewolf]

You will need either an AVID or an ASIC depending on where you will be flying and whether or not you are being escorted by an instructor/pilot. You probably wont need anything until you do your first solo flights. An easy rule of thumb is:

 

If you are flying from or too an airport that has regular public transport or secure status (Check the list at CASA) you will need an ASIC.

 

If you wont be flying to airports that have regular public transport then just apply of an AVID.

 

If you have just started training then wait until after you have done some circuit training just to make sure you still want to fly then get an ASIC as this is accepted at all airports.

 

 

[Guest colt_pa22]

Will,

 

You don't require an AVID or ASIC until you turn 18 years, regardless of training airport, aircraft type, etc. Even if you obtain your PPL at age 17, you can fly to any type of airport in the country (including security controlled airports) without an AVID or ASIC and be legal.

 

You are only eligible for and AVID or ASIC upon your 18th birthday. Your must also have a GFPT, licence or higher to my knowledge.

 

colt

 

 

[sixtiesrelic]

Now, there's a WIN.

 

Wonder how long the cows'll take to decide to stop THAT?

 

They'll lose money on the people who don't continue flying.

 

 

[TAA Student Pilot]

It is a requirement to have a security pass or be signed on/off by an approved person in a provided log in a "secure" airfield. You don't have to have a licence to have an ASIC.

 

There are different ideas on what actually is required, don't expect anybody in CASA or DOTARS to take any responsibility by telling you what is actually needed, all they do is refer you to regulations. Those regulations are made to be convoluted and hard to read.

 

It's been proven by John Howard the bomb maker not the actor or the other one, that they are a complete waste of time. He applied for and recieved an ASIC, while buying explosives and storing all sorts of things.

 

A farmer has to have a security check to buy certain sorts of fertiliser, anybody else can buy nicely packaged 10 kilo bags over the counter, no checks. It's all a total waste of time.

 

 

[Guest colt_pa22]

Will,

 

Forgive me, you do need an ASIC while entering the Essendon air side area, despite being under the age of 18. The good news, is you do not need a security check so your ASIC should be processed quicker than most.

 

If you are under 18 you will not need to apply for an aviation security status check and AVID. If you need frequent access to a secure area of a security controlled airport that has Regular Public Transport (RPT) operations, you will need to apply for an ASIC but you can obtain one without a security check.

casa.gov.au

 

colt

 

 

[Guest WillMikoyan]

This was one of the things that had me confused with all the information on the ASICS, one part of CASA's websites said I do need one, the other part said I wouldn't, the information PDF about the card said I didn't, DOTARS said I did and it went on. :x Another part said that if I was under 18 I wouldn't have t pay another part said it was something like 130 dollars for one.

 

At least this has made it clearer... It's all making me think I should just head home and learn to fly back in NZ, there doesn't seem to be so many stupid regulations over there.

 

So this is what I should do. (?)

 

1. Take a few lessons first, if I want (am going to) to continue flying, get the forms and start filling them out

 

2.Send the forms off, hope CASA doesn't try and break the world record for the most inefficient and stupid government department while processing it. Get it back about 6 months later.

 

3. Then go through it all again when I have to get it renewed (by then it'll need a security check.)

 

If I wasn't wanting to make a career of it RA-Aus would be looking very attractive at the moment... :D

 

 

[Guest colt_pa22]

Pretty stupid alright as the entire Essendon airport is "secure". People who fly with National Aerospace need an ASIC as their aircraft are located where Sharp Aviation come in, whereas people who fly from Essendon flying school do not as they are located away from the RPT area?

 

Even at Moorabbin you could easily jump the fence.

 

The whole system won't stop a terrorist, only some future pilots.

 

colt

 

 

[Guest WillMikoyan]

Well the government seems to have made it fairly obvious over the last few years that they don't want to have any sort of GA industry in Australia at all...

 

It seems to me that they are creating these massive, crippling restrictions on the GA industry to create an illusion to the general public that they are increasing national security, when in fact all they are going really is destroying the GA industry and wasting money...

 

One thing I don't understand as well is that there are no security checks for the under 18, yet this is the group of people who are most likely to be influenced by a terrorist organisation...Just a thought anyway

 

 

[Guest colt_pa22]

It seems a bit silly. I could charter a B737 (I wish), park in the GA area and have a number of non security checked people walk around it, but the government is more worried about a security threat to a 12 seater Piper Chieftain? What about charter aircraft parked outside of that little blue box, same aircraft types, same type of crew? The RPT areas and the GA areas of airports need to need outlined in the ERSA

 

colt

 

 

[Guest VH-TJT]

I will soon have two current ASIC cards. One wasn't good enough.

 

TJT

 

 

[ryanb]

FYI, i have had an ASIC since i was 15 at Essendon, and you do need it because it has RPT services.

 

 

[Scottw]

The information on all ASIC requirements is actually laid down by Office of Transport Security which is part as D.O.I.T (formerly DOTARS). There is info on the CASA site however they are not the regulatory Body, DOIT are the Reg, Body. If any Aerodrome or Airport in Aus. has regular public transport flights operating then the airfield is required to have a Transport Security Program (TSP) and an ASIC Program and is the requirement that any one who accesses the airside area requires an ASIC, however those excempt from requiring an ASIC are those persons who -

 

1 - a person who is a passenger

 

2 - Emergency services crews who need to be airside for operational reasons. eg Responding to emergency or another case at an airfield I work at Ambos taking sick/injured/passenger transfers with RFDS or Careflight Rescue.

 

3 - ADF personnel on official duties at the airfield

 

And you can get ASIC's for persons under the Age of 16.

 

Now were there are ASIC programs there are VIC cards, or Temporary Visitor ID Cards. I'm not going to bore with all the details but there are changes in the wind. As of November 21 the new legislation kicks in. Now lets say you operate an aircraft at an ASIC airfield, you want to take a close freind out on the airfield to look at the plane and does not have an ASIC. By Law the person you are taking out is not a passenger so under the current legislation made by our government (agree with this or not) requires that the person you are taking out requires a Visitor Id Card. How do you get one of those , well you 'll have to ask your airfield operator that one. Where we could issue VICs upto 3 months in a 12 month period, OR issue the VICS under the agreement that the Airport operators chose to issue the VICs for a set time with DOIT up to the three month period, Now the maximum a VIC card can be issued to a person is 28 days in any 12 month period. If the person requires the VIC card for more than a 72 hour period that person now has to have there photo taken and it gets printed onto a card just like an ASIC, which we are now getting all that togethe at a considerable expense as the printing machines are not cheap.

 

The Vic program does not discriminate, and I beleive this is changing to thankfully with the min. age increasing. Under the VIC program regards age there is no descrimination. When they say a person who goes airside who des not a have an ASIC requires a VIC they mean any person from a 1 month old baby to a 105 year old person. I have had the situation where a family was visiting a Rescure Helicopter operations and were getting a tour of the helicopter as they made a contribution to the organisation. Because they were going airside i had to issue them with VICs and was given the heads up that they were bringing the family along. So I checked the regulations and I was required to issue each of the children a VIC including the 12 month old child...Uncomfotable with that ....YOU BET. Also I am required by law to report any person who is airside that is not wearing an ASIC to the Canberra Office. Even if I know they have an ASIC Card, and know the person really well...Uncomfortable with that ....YOU BET! But if it got reported back to the Office of Transport Security that I did not fulfill my obligations under the Transport Security Act by not issuing the VICs or fulfilling the requirements under ASIC then I would be personally breaking the Law by not doing so and I would get a huge fine and possibly a stint in Jail.

 

So if you think the ASIC program is pain then try working at an airfield that is under an ASIC Program.

 

Cheers

 

 

[red750]

Hi Scottw,

 

Hypothetical case. Supposing someone operating an aircraft (eg Kingair or Navajo) based at Essendon wanted me to take photos of it for them from airside, would I qualify for a VIC (if only for, say, an hour or so), and who would issue it, airport management or the aircraft operator? I presume the operator would have to accompany me at all times. I assume a VIC does not allow you to walk around unescorted. I ask this because some time ago, within the last 12 months, I was escorted airside to take some photos, and all I was given was a fluro safety vest.

 

Peter.

 

 

[Scottw]

G'day Red750

 

I would imagine the operator of Essendon or at least their operations office would have them and I don't know anyone from down there and I don't know if they operate on weekends either. A VIC can be issued for as little as 10mins

 

If the pilot wants you to do the pics then assuming he has an ASIC, once you have the VIC card you should be right if the pilot of the aircraft is with you, or at least an ASIC holder. Then that also quantifies the operational reson fo you to have a VIC, as just like an ASIC its operational reason to get one. I reckon to help the situation, if possible to do so, have the pilot occumpany you to the office where they issue the VICS or at least have him ring ahead to confirm that you are doing this for him which shows to the issuing office he is aware your doing this and formalises the "Formal Shoot". I know its sounds a lot of mucking around (to say the least) just to take a few images and a lot of wasting time, but for the person issueing the VIC it gives them the perception that your taking the Security thing serious and get a Vic issued without too much of a problem. your jumping through their hoops and the better you get to know them the easier it will be for next time you wish to set up (for the purpose of the exercise lets just hypothetically say) another "Formal Photo" shoot. And as Essendon has certain requirements accessing and sounds like they have unique airfield set up, those who issue the VICS in the office will also explain the access areas.

 

Honestly if you have reason what soever to require an ASIC..... get one! Makes it easier.

 

I don't know what the ARO or Security officers are like down there, but if they catch you airside without a VIC ASIC, they are under a legal obligation to act on it.

 

Thanks Red70