GA to RA Aus

[Guest TConnor]

I have been considering the switch to RA Aus from GA training, simply as a cost reduction measure.

 

I am assured by the folks that operate Ultra Lights that I can count hours flown in them towards my PPL, if the instructor is also qualified to provide GA training.

 

Would there be any advantages other than cost? Would anyone advise against this, and if so, for what reasons?

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

[Guest Glenn]

It depends if you are going to fly for fun or as a career. If for fun then RAA is the way to go. But remember there is only seating for 2 and limited space for cargo.

 

 

[Guest colt_pa22]

But remember there is only seating for 2 and limited space for cargo.

What about the four seat Jabiru?

 

A few advantages I can think of over GA:

 

1. AVID not required at all, ASIC not required as a form of photo ID.

 

2. Anti theft device not required to secure your aircraft.

 

3. Anyone can work on an RAA registered aircraft; you don't need to be a LAME.

 

4. Generally ultra light aircraft are cheaper to purchase new and second compared to GA

 

5. The ultra light fleet has a lower average age than the GA fleet and newer technology (e.g. engines etc)

 

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[Guest Glenn]

What about the four seat Jabiru?

Hmmm ok. I forgot about that, thanks :)

 

 

[sixtiesrelic]

AND you won't wonder why you bother when you run into the bloody mindedness of that mob ....too mad to use the C word!!!

 

No wonder so many people are going to the RAA and getting out of "regular" aviation.

 

I think ultra light teaching to fly concentrates more on fun than "regular" which is pointing the student to commercial aviation... All seriousness and pretending you're in a big jumbo rather than a LIGHT aircraft.

 

 

[Guest TConnor]

Yep. I intend to fly for fun only. I'm not interested in flying anything bigger than a 4 seat aircraft.

 

I have received a lot of information from the RA Aus crowd thus far. They all seem mad keen on their light thingies.

 

I am still in two minds about switching. Currently training in a C152 @ $130 p/h dual. The Jabiru is $120 p/h dual. Considering that, I don't really have much to gain by going to ultra lights.

 

Solo for the Jabiru is $95 p/h (depending on school), again not much of a saving. I'm getting my licence because I love flying for fun, and I want to take the family on day trips occasionally to get away and do family things.

 

One thing that I'm also considering is that the pilot's certificate issued by RA Aus does not allow you to carry passengers. Your need an additional 10 hours for that, which I think is bloody ridiculous.

 

Yeah, I think I've just decided to stay GA. I may look at ultra lights down the track a bit after I attain my PPL.

 

 

[Guest Crash Lander]

Yep. I intend to fly for fun only. I'm not interested in flying anything bigger than a 4 seat aircraft.I have received a lot of information from the RA Aus crowd thus far. They all seem mad keen on their light thingies.

 

I am still in two minds about switching. Currently training in a C152 @ $130 p/h dual. The Jabiru is $120 p/h dual. Considering that, I don't really have much to gain by going to ultra lights.

 

Solo for the Jabiru is $95 p/h (depending on school), again not much of a saving. I'm getting my licence because I love flying for fun, and I want to take the family on day trips occasionally to get away and do family things.

 

One thing that I'm also considering is that the pilot's certificate issued by RA Aus does not allow you to carry passengers. Your need an additional 10 hours for that, which I think is bloody ridiculous.

 

Yeah, I think I've just decided to stay GA. I may look at ultra lights down the track a bit after I attain my PPL.

That's bloody cheap mate! I've been quoted $175 per hour dual in a Jabiru! The Gazelle I flew in last weekend was $99 per hour solo, and I think around $150 Dual!

 

I am being quoted 152's at low $200's dual! per hour! I'm in Victoria.

 

 

[Guest TConnor]

Yep, it is cheap. Both for the C152 and Jabiru.

 

My flying school is the Australian Air League, and their instructors are volunteers, so I'm not paying for their time, they are happy to log hours for free without being paid for it. So $130 p/h dual is what I pay.

 

Now, I know some people will be thinking "you get what you pay for", and some bag out the AAL because the instructors aren't paid. But I am very fussy about training quality, and I have trained with another school who's instructors were paid, and most of them were in the wrong job. They were either arrogant or totally disinterested in teaching others to fly.

 

I'd have to say without a doubt, that the AAL instructors are first class. They are there because they love flying and they really are excellent.

 

If you think the C152 is cheap, consider thier PA 28 161 warrior. It's $150 p/h dual or solo (wet). Makes for a very cheap weekend family fly away.

 

 

[Guest colt_pa22]

Very cheap indeed. Our aero club charges $200 dual for their 172M. Having instructors as volunteers is a great idea; bringing the cost down will definitely attract more students.

 

One thing that I'm also considering is that the pilot's certificate issued by RA Aus does not allow you to carry passengers. Your need an additional 10 hours for that, which I think is bloody ridiculous.

You will still be ahead of a CASA PPL(a) in terms of minimum hours.

 

Glenn spoke of most ultra lights only having 2 seats or less which is correct. But seriously, how many people who own a 4 seat GA aircraft actually use all 4 seats regularly? How many times do you think you be flying with four or more seats filled?

 

I still think a RA licence, despite there only being a few RA registered aircraft with 4 seats has a lot more advantages over GA. I don't believe the average flying weekend will be as cheap as you make it out to be.

 

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[Guest Crash Lander]

Glenn spoke of most ultra lights only having 2 seats or less which is correct. But seriously, how many people who own a 4 seat GA aircraft actually use all 4 seats regularly? How many times do you think you be flying with four or more seats filled?

I still think a RA licence, despite there only being a few RA registered aircraft with 4 seats has a lot more advantages over GA. I don't believe the average flying weekend will be as cheap as you make it out to be.

 

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That's exactly what my mate said. You rarely have a need to put 4 bums in seats, and 99% of the time only need 2 seats, so RA is the cheaper and easier way to get flying. I will get my RA certificate first, and then after I've had that for a while, I'll probably up it to a PPL, just so I have the option later if I want it.

 

 

[Guest TConnor]

Well, I will actually be filling 4 seats regularly (I have 5 kids, three of whom are old enough to fly and love it). If I only need 2 seats, I'll be flying a C152.

 

I haven't fully ruled out looking into ultra lights, but my preference is for GA.

 

I have spoken to a lot of GA PPL & CPL holders, and they have a very dim view of ultra light flying. When asked why, many of them say they just don't trust an aircraft built in someone's back yard. When I ask them about the commercially manufactured models, they are still not keen. Perhaps this is a mentality from years ago, when ultra lights didn't have a great reputation, I don't know.

 

 

[Guest colt_pa22]

I don't agree with what you've been told about ultralight aircraft. I agree, most have been put together in their owners back yards and garages but they still need to be test flown and certified before being reigistered. I've met some very highly skilled biulders of ultralight aircraft who are not LAMEs just mechanically minded.

 

From the RA- Aus website:

 

The remarkable growth continues While Australian general aviation still appears to drift in the doldrums Recreational Aviation Australia continues to forge ahead.

 

Membership at July 31 is 6401, 7% up from the 5996 at December 31 2005 and the RA-Aus approved flight training facilities now number 115, a 13% increase over 7 months.

 

During the first six months of 2006 172 new registrations were added to our aircraft register, the LSA category was added to the RA-Aus stable and Pilot Certificate holders are now legal in Class E airspace.

 

The growth in productivity and effectiveness of the RA-Aus staff has maintained fees at the same level [excluding GST] for the past eight or nine years.

I just wish the RA MTOW limit increased from the 600KG to 800KG to include most two seater GA types.

 

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[Guest Crash Lander]

I didn't like the idea of RA either at first, because I wouldn't get a PPL at the end. It wasn't until I realised that I could learn to fly in an ultralight, and then get my PPL afterwards with little more than a checkride and a few tests that I warmed to the idea. My back account will be thanking me for years, and I can get up in the air a lot quicker.

 

 

[Guest TConnor]

As I said before - $130 p/h dual on C152 or $120 p/h in a Jabiru. Not really much difference.

 

 

[TAA Student Pilot]

Originally ultralights were a lot cheaper to hire/run/train in, now most are $110+ an hour dual, that seems a lot for a Drifter. The prices you can get for training and private hire seem very good, they are asking $200 an hour here.

 

If your going to be carrying the family then you have no choice, it's got to be GA. You can always get checked out with an RAA licence and hire a Drifter for some different flying after you have your Private, open cockpit flying has something to offer besides the cold.

 

Your flying doesn't have to be one or the other, it can be both, both have different things to offer.