Intro and HELP!

[Guest A Jones]

Hi All Aussie Aviators

 

I am new to this forum and also new to Aviation.

 

On the 11th Feb 07 this old 34yo commenced flying training with the hope to changing careers in a three year time frame.

 

I have been having lessons twice a week (16 lessons to date and about 14 hours logged) in a 172, which I love attending.

 

Circuits have become the love of my life (I think not!)

 

Take off, flying and my approaches on final are fine, but I am having all sorts of trouble getting the flare, hold off and touch down happening at an acceptable standard and on a regular basis.

 

Anyone got any hints to help me get through this most frustrating phase?

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

 

Mackay, Qld

 

 

[Guest Glenn]

Hi A Jones and welcome to the site.

 

I can't be of much help to you as I haven't got my licence but all I can suggest is practice, practice and more practice.

 

I have also heard that if you look down the runway while on finals and keep looking at a certain point on the runway then that is where you will touch down.

 

I'm sure someone here can be of more help.

 

 

[TAA Student Pilot]

You will get many different answers, it's hard to tell the bullshit from the good advice. I've found the simplest is the best, if things get too complicated you can't take it all in and use it when your flying.

 

To me the idea is to keep the Aircraft flying as long as you can as close to the ground as you can. You have to keep flying while the speed decays as close to the ground as you can till the Aircraft stops flying. Hopefully you will be only a couple of inches off the ground and the Aircraft will just squeak on. Look out to roughly the middle ground, not just in front of you but about 150 metres out. This is a very subjective thing and varies with different pilots.

 

There is no definitive way to land correctly, judgement takes time, you can't expect to do it in any real time frame. Different skill and coodination levels give different times for training. Try not to get too hyped up and just take it as it comes, some solo in 10 others in 25 hours. It will take how long it takes, you can't really rush these things. Starting at a more mature age should help you you with a more level headed approach, just relax and enjoy every bit.

 

Good luck,

 

SP

 

 

[Guest A Jones]

Thanks guys for your support

 

I am sure determination will win out over the frustration

 

Tomorrows lesson will be circuits @ 500ft so there are lots more landings to get frustrated over!

 

Enjoy your weekends

 

Andrew

 

 

[sixtiesrelic]

Go for it!! You'll get there and LOVE circuits.

 

With the landings , Student Pilot covered it well. Listen to him!

 

EVERYBODY has the some problem at your stage.

 

You think you have five big toes on the end of your hand and you'll never get there, then SUDDENLY the problem's gone and you don't know how it happened.

 

The big toes on you hands... never go away when you fly. Unless you're an ace.

 

You become proficient in one aircraft and it is part of you. You soar like an eagle in it.

 

Get into a new more complicated one and you're back to being a "freak" wondering if you're doing the right thing.

 

Most airline guys suffer the problem.

 

I saw a friend tell the CFI she was giving up learning to fly as she was no good.

 

Her husband, a bit of a "scummy" airline pilot, told her she was useless and would never get there!

 

The CFI ... a bloke who started flying lessons in his late forties was one of life's gentlemen and had the best attitude to students and aviating I've ever seen said, "Lets go for a fly and see what the problem is"

 

He'd had plenty of problems climbing the ladder to CFI and understood.

 

On returning from their flight, I overheard them as they left the aircraft and he went through all her actions from the pre flt inspection to gettin' out at the end and he praised everything she did.

 

He said' "Your only problem is flaring and we can fix that easily".

 

She got her license.

 

Should have divorced the selfish jerk who left her at the altar three times before before giving in and saying "I do", but Women are funny animals.

 

She is too good for him.

 

Which flying school are you with and who's the CFI?

 

I guess the blokes I knew are gone by now... haven't been to MK since 1989

 

Sixties

 

 

[Guest A Jones]

Hi Ya Sixties

 

I am learning with Horizon and they are great. The Instructors are about 8 years younger than me but are patient and helpful in every aspect. The CFIs are Trish Mahlberg and Peter Ware and they treat me very warmly (probably due to my age and keenness to learn and possible career change). Thanks for your words of wisdom.

 

AJ

 

 

[Guest lonewolf]

On a 172 really stick to the speed on final(70kn) and short final(65kn) go through the mantra aim point, centre line speed and make sure you correct everything as soon as possible. Fly the plane down to the lowest possible height you can (without denting the runway) then change your focus to the end of the runway and aim the aircraft there. When established on the flight to the end of the runway close the throttle and keep the nose on the end of the runway by gently pulling back on the stick. Touch down with the rear wheels and keep pulling back to keep the front wheel off the ground.

 

I found initially I tried to round out flylevel hold off as one item and messed up many landings (just call me skippy) but then I started to break it into three distinct stages and not rushing and voila landings happened and the instructor finally got out of my aircraft.

 

Good luck

 

 

[sixtiesrelic]

What's the rego of the 172

 

 

[Guest A Jones]

The 172 rego is OHZ

 

Had a lesson yesterday and today and things work some of the time but not frequently enough for my liking (last landing this morning was so so wrong with a capital R!!!).

 

Apparently I am concentrating way too hard!

 

How can you not concentrate hard?

 

Oh well I am poor again so a few of days rest before I'm up again.

 

CFI (this mornings instructor) believes 1-2 more lessons and I should have it.

 

Fingers, but not controls, crossed.

 

Have a good weekend all.

 

 

[sixtiesrelic]

Do you use Flight simulator for practising various things like radio calls etc?

 

I reckon it must be magic. I certainly could have used FS for so much of my training.

 

 

[TAA Steve]

Come on guys, everyone knows there's three methods to a perfect landing everytime...

 

It's just no one knows exactly what they are. :P

 

 

[Guest David C]

I was taught to focus on the far end of the runway and correct my attitude using those clues . Now that may be fine for a C172 or similar which have a bit of inertia , but landing a Jabiru weighing in at 450Kg is a lot different . The best method for me was to try and fly the plane as low and as slow as I could without actually landing it . Eventually your speed will drop away and the airplane can only do one thing , and that is to land ..As the saying goes ." if you can walk away from the landing , it must be a good one , and if you can fly the plane again that's a bonus !! " .. Hope this helps ...

 

 

[Guest The Hammer]

Hi Andrew, good luck with your career plans. Presumably you have done a medical to ATPL standard, just to be sure that after spending all that money, you aren't snookered in the last round.

 

How to make THE perfect touchdown - well mate, one thing is for certain, you'll still be trying to do that until you retire, but you'll never achieve it.

 

Have a think about what you are trying to achieve when landing.

 

And yes, looking right toward the very end of the runway allows you to see small changes in the attitude of the aircraft's nose.

 

The initial flare is to check your rate of descent, so that the aircraft doesn't slam on to the runway - flare too quickly and you'll balloon. So pull back slightly when you think you're at the right height, and check it momentarily.

 

The throttle is now completely closed, and you are trying to NOT let the aircraft land, so to do this you need to increase the lift.

 

The lift is reducing because the speed is slowly washing off, and thus the only other way of get that lift is to increase the angle of attack of the wing.

 

That means easing back ever so slowly as the speed continues to wash off.

 

Increased AoA also increases drag, so the speed will decay at an increasingly faster rate, the longer you keep slowly easing back on the yoke.

 

Hopefully you will be able to understand the aerodynamics involved.

 

Give it a few "dry runs" in your head, and you'll be greasing them on before too much longer.

 

 

[Guest A Jones]

What is everyones thoughts on flight sims?

 

Is it worthwhile?

 

Must say I have an old Mac (2001) so I suppose it would be too slow for modern day programs and I haven't heard of any for Apple computers.

 

 

[Todd M]

If you don't have a computer with a good processor, graphics card and all that modern junk then don't go for Flight Simulator X. As it is made for more modern day, higher class Windows Vista Capable and Above computers. I have FS 9 (2004) at home and it is great, and runs well on my computer my folks bought 2 years or so ago. I would suggest sourcing a copy of FS 2000 as it would probs run best on your computer, aslong as FS is capable with MAC PC's. That I don't know as I am not a Mac user, and never will be. ;)

 

 

[Guest Darren Masters]

I found Flight Sim X very slow at first when I installed it.My machine is not that old and was custom made a few years back with 'the best of everything' (back then).All it took was tweaking a few of the settings in the sim.I am most impressed with the graphics/terrain detail in Flight Sim X aswell as the realism versus other editions.I still wish they would get the Australian ATC freqs right! :twisted: